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Provide evidence. If it's so prevalent it shouldn't be hard. We all know about Uber, come up with something original. You are accusing the entire industry as a

Provide evidence. If it's so prevalent it shouldn't be hard. We all know about Uber, come up with something original. You are accusing the entire industry as a whole after all from little firms to giants.

wfunction 9y ago
These two articles went around a while ago (Microsoft, Pinterest): [1] https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11262888 https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11262888 [2] https://qz.com/659196 https://qz.com/659196
- MadSax 9y ago
  Given the number of UFO sighting claims, you would think everyone's chance of encountering a silent flying saucer shaped object in their lifetime is near 100%. My point is, everyone sympathizes with stories of abuse/sexism/racism, but the number of articles written about them doesn't prove they happen frequently or even that they happen in the majority of workplaces.
  - rhcom2 9y ago
    Sexism claims can be backed up by facts, courts, admissions of guilt. They're nothing like UFO sightings.
mustacheemperor 9y ago
Just to add to the evidence others are posting, Dave McClure is a fine example and my go-to since people started complaining Uber's scandal wasn't "original enough." [0]https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 [1]https://cherylyeoh.com/2017/07/03/shedding-light-on-the-black-box-of-inappropriateness/ https://cherylyeoh.com/2017/07/03/shedding-light-on-the-blac...
KirinDave 9y ago
Why are Uber and GitHub not sufficient as a basis for plausibility? Because you know about them? That's arbitrary.
dang 9y ago
This isn't a helpful comment on a divisive topic. On HN alone, there has been a long list of similar articles, experiences, and threads. That's evidence, and it's not as if it's hard to find. People can reasonably differ on how to assess it, what the underlying problem is, how best to correct it, and many other aspects. But forcing a relitigation ab initio every time it comes up is unhelpful to begin with, and when you sprinkle in aggressive argumentation, you're over the line in a way that leads nowhere good. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14868537 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14868537 and marked it off-topic.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
computerex 9y ago
To everyone down voting me: Please don't turn hacker news into reddit. Extraordinary claims require substantial amount of evidence to have any weight. If sexism was rampant and common through out the entire software development industry, more so than other industries, I think we would see a lot of evidence supporting that. Look at the evidence, and form your conclusions based on that. The reason why I discounted Uber is because Uber is just one company and is no where near representative of the industry as a whole. Silicon Valley is _also_ not representative of the whole industry. The evidence that people did provide: https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 https://cherylyeoh.com/2017/07/03/shedding-light-on-the-black-box-of-inappropriateness/ https://cherylyeoh.com/2017/07/03/shedding-light-on-the-blac... That's one messed up guy. His post places much emphasis on the fact that this shortcoming is his own and that the rest of the company does not have the same weird ideals and that his co-founder + senior management are sound. One guy is not representative of the whole industry. https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11262888/microsoft-gdc-2016-party https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11262888/microsoft-gdc-20... This article is grasping on straws. I fail to see what a gaming conference has to do with the software development industry. Also, this presumes that the adult entertainment industry is sexist/misogynistic, which is a conflicted position to say the least. https://qz.com/659196/i-had-so-many-advantages-and-i-barely-made-it-pinterests-tracy-chou-on-sexism-in-tech/ https://qz.com/659196/i-had-so-many-advantages-and-i-barely-... I think this is the most honest and realistic view of the industry. Yes, I would say there is sexism in that women _are_ treated _differently_, in part simply due to the rarity of female software engineers. That is a far cry from the picture some are trying to paint.

wfunction 9y ago

These two articles went around a while ago (Microsoft, Pinterest): [1] https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11262888 https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11262888 [2] https://qz.com/659196 https://qz.com/659196

MadSax 9y ago
Given the number of UFO sighting claims, you would think everyone's chance of encountering a silent flying saucer shaped object in their lifetime is near 100%. My point is, everyone sympathizes with stories of abuse/sexism/racism, but the number of articles written about them doesn't prove they happen frequently or even that they happen in the majority of workplaces.
- rhcom2 9y ago
  Sexism claims can be backed up by facts, courts, admissions of guilt. They're nothing like UFO sightings.

mustacheemperor 9y ago

Just to add to the evidence others are posting, Dave McClure is a fine example and my go-to since people started complaining Uber's scandal wasn't "original enough." [0]https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 [1]https://cherylyeoh.com/2017/07/03/shedding-light-on-the-black-box-of-inappropriateness/ https://cherylyeoh.com/2017/07/03/shedding-light-on-the-blac...

KirinDave 9y ago

Why are Uber and GitHub not sufficient as a basis for plausibility? Because you know about them? That's arbitrary.

dang 9y ago

This isn't a helpful comment on a divisive topic. On HN alone, there has been a long list of similar articles, experiences, and threads. That's evidence, and it's not as if it's hard to find. People can reasonably differ on how to assess it, what the underlying problem is, how best to correct it, and many other aspects. But forcing a relitigation ab initio every time it comes up is unhelpful to begin with, and when you sprinkle in aggressive argumentation, you're over the line in a way that leads nowhere good. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14868537 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14868537 and marked it off-topic.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

computerex 9y ago

To everyone down voting me: Please don't turn hacker news into reddit. Extraordinary claims require substantial amount of evidence to have any weight. If sexism was rampant and common through out the entire software development industry, more so than other industries, I think we would see a lot of evidence supporting that. Look at the evidence, and form your conclusions based on that. The reason why I discounted Uber is because Uber is just one company and is no where near representative of the industry as a whole. Silicon Valley is _also_ not representative of the whole industry. The evidence that people did provide: https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 https://cherylyeoh.com/2017/07/03/shedding-light-on-the-black-box-of-inappropriateness/ https://cherylyeoh.com/2017/07/03/shedding-light-on-the-blac... That's one messed up guy. His post places much emphasis on the fact that this shortcoming is his own and that the rest of the company does not have the same weird ideals and that his co-founder + senior management are sound. One guy is not representative of the whole industry. https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11262888/microsoft-gdc-2016-party https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11262888/microsoft-gdc-20... This article is grasping on straws. I fail to see what a gaming conference has to do with the software development industry. Also, this presumes that the adult entertainment industry is sexist/misogynistic, which is a conflicted position to say the least. https://qz.com/659196/i-had-so-many-advantages-and-i-barely-made-it-pinterests-tracy-chou-on-sexism-in-tech/ https://qz.com/659196/i-had-so-many-advantages-and-i-barely-... I think this is the most honest and realistic view of the industry. Yes, I would say there is sexism in that women _are_ treated _differently_, in part simply due to the rarity of female software engineers. That is a far cry from the picture some are trying to paint.