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"I have never had a sour personal experience involving any coworkers in tech." Isn't that the same as saying "not all men" etc?

joelrunyon 9y ago
No - it's saying don't extrapolate your personal experiences to an entire industry. That's not that crazy.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  And since this is a totally new kind of story that hasn't been in the international headlines repeatedly over the last 5 years and a general topic of discussion for the last 25 we should ignore anec... Hey wait. It IS those things. Gosh maybe we should listen then? This urge to tell people anecdotes are not data is very very stale, when it comes to this topic. We have data and it's consistent with this anecdote. A woman being harassed in the workplace appears to be plausible and backed by data. So why does anyone feel like immediately posting a not-all-tech-orgs helps anyone buy the tech org you're representing?
  - joelrunyon 9y ago
    Never said that - The story wasn't "I almost quit my job" - the story was "I almost quit tech." If you want to keep generalizing - we can keep going to "I almost quit modern cities and went off to live as a hermit." I think it's important to share her story. However, it's more powerful when people don't overreach, and talk about their specific situation and how it had specific instances & issues because it allows people to understand, empathize & change things that are within their circle of influence. Saying "tech" has a problem is easy to say, but it doesn't actually provide any actionable insight on what to do about it.
    - KirinDave 9y ago
      So... You want to mollify her point by saying, "Not all tech?" I'm just confused, because this seems like such an obvious statement. Of course not every workplace is this bad. Why does that have to be said here? The author seems to convey a frustration with what she feels is an industy-level problem. Given the events of the last 5 years and the general statistics for women in tech, maybe that's not unreasonable. Both your point and hers can coexist in the same narrative. It's just that your point seems a bit like you're mad the article wasn't copy-edited to avoid pedantic objections about implicit quantification.
      - joelrunyon 9y ago
        You're looking for an argument that you're not going to get. I'm all about holding people accountable - but in order to do that you have to be specific about who is causing the issue & what they're doing. Have a good day.
- rexaliquid 9y ago
  > I had studied women in tech for two years as part of my master’s in Sociology degree I don't think the author is extrapolating her personal experience to the industry. Her experience is a personal example of a trend she had previously studied.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
burkaman 9y ago
No, it's sort of the opposite. "Not all men" in this case would be "not all companies have cultures like this". The response to "not all men" is "but (practically) all women have experienced harassment". So in this case one might say "even if not all companies do this, all employees have experienced it". And mod's comment is that at least one employee has not.
heartbreak 9y ago
In some cases “not all men” is used to shut down the woman who is speaking. It’s like saying since not all men are like the man described in your experience, your experience doesn’t matter. In that case, “not all men” is a phrase I wouldn’t use. However, when the individual extrapolates his/her experience to the men in the industry as a whole, comprising of millions of different people, I think “not all men” or “not everyone in this industry” is a perfectly valid response.

joelrunyon 9y ago

No - it's saying don't extrapolate your personal experiences to an entire industry. That's not that crazy.

KirinDave 9y ago
And since this is a totally new kind of story that hasn't been in the international headlines repeatedly over the last 5 years and a general topic of discussion for the last 25 we should ignore anec... Hey wait. It IS those things. Gosh maybe we should listen then? This urge to tell people anecdotes are not data is very very stale, when it comes to this topic. We have data and it's consistent with this anecdote. A woman being harassed in the workplace appears to be plausible and backed by data. So why does anyone feel like immediately posting a not-all-tech-orgs helps anyone buy the tech org you're representing?
- joelrunyon 9y ago
  Never said that - The story wasn't "I almost quit my job" - the story was "I almost quit tech." If you want to keep generalizing - we can keep going to "I almost quit modern cities and went off to live as a hermit." I think it's important to share her story. However, it's more powerful when people don't overreach, and talk about their specific situation and how it had specific instances & issues because it allows people to understand, empathize & change things that are within their circle of influence. Saying "tech" has a problem is easy to say, but it doesn't actually provide any actionable insight on what to do about it.
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    So... You want to mollify her point by saying, "Not all tech?" I'm just confused, because this seems like such an obvious statement. Of course not every workplace is this bad. Why does that have to be said here? The author seems to convey a frustration with what she feels is an industy-level problem. Given the events of the last 5 years and the general statistics for women in tech, maybe that's not unreasonable. Both your point and hers can coexist in the same narrative. It's just that your point seems a bit like you're mad the article wasn't copy-edited to avoid pedantic objections about implicit quantification.
    - joelrunyon 9y ago
      You're looking for an argument that you're not going to get. I'm all about holding people accountable - but in order to do that you have to be specific about who is causing the issue & what they're doing. Have a good day.
rexaliquid 9y ago
> I had studied women in tech for two years as part of my master’s in Sociology degree I don't think the author is extrapolating her personal experience to the industry. Her experience is a personal example of a trend she had previously studied.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

burkaman 9y ago

No, it's sort of the opposite. "Not all men" in this case would be "not all companies have cultures like this". The response to "not all men" is "but (practically) all women have experienced harassment". So in this case one might say "even if not all companies do this, all employees have experienced it". And mod's comment is that at least one employee has not.

heartbreak 9y ago

In some cases “not all men” is used to shut down the woman who is speaking. It’s like saying since not all men are like the man described in your experience, your experience doesn’t matter. In that case, “not all men” is a phrase I wouldn’t use. However, when the individual extrapolates his/her experience to the men in the industry as a whole, comprising of millions of different people, I think “not all men” or “not everyone in this industry” is a perfectly valid response.