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Let's assume that neither of us know if God REALLY exists...don't you think it might be safer to hedge your bet and believe in a god - for the afterlife? What

Let's assume that neither of us know if God REALLY exists...don't you think it might be safer to hedge your bet and believe in a god - for the afterlife? What will it cost you to believe in God while you are alive? Nothing. What will it cost you if there really is a god and you chose not to believe? Could cost you eternity. So why not believe? The upside is (in the worst case) the same as not believing, but the downside (in the worst case) could be eternal damnation. This is ofcourse assuming that the person that does exist, believes in the right god.

tkahn6 16y ago
This is known as Pascal's Wager. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascals_Wager http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascals_Wager
- marcamillion 16y ago
  Very interesting...never knew about this. Thanks!
prawn 16y ago
"So why not believe?" How is it that easy? We're not picking a team to support in the Finals series. The idea of believing in a "god" to me is as foreign as believing in a tooth fairy. When an employee of mine is openly religious, it is to me akin to him espousing a belief in something purely fantastical - tooth fairy, Santa Claus, etc. His choice and I don't deride it, but to me it is all entirely bizarre. When I look at mysteries of our existence, of the creation of our universe, at no point does any fibre of my being whatsoever think to consider that a god-like higher power might be behind it all. And even if you could force yourself to believe, without doubt, which god are you going to believe in to guarantee yourself some sort of 'eternity'?
- frederickcook 16y ago
  Might not be the best idea to comment on your personal feelings regarding an employee's religious affiliation. It'd suck to have a HN post submitted as evidence in a discrimination lawsuit. Edit: Why the down-vote? The parent has his company and website in his info. No idea what it's like in AUS, but in the states, if someone was fired and there was any ambiguity regarding the reason, this comment could be be admissible in court to demonstrate a prior discriminatory attitude toward people based on their religion.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - prawn 16y ago
    Thanks for the reminder - obviously it's something that some people might be concerned about and if I wanted to play it especially safely, I would. I don't discriminate against the guy. We are open about our positions and can discuss it at the right times, but all it is, is a difference in belief in one aspect of life (admittedly, a big aspect of his life). I pay him more than I pay myself and he is an invaluable employee who does great work for me. I think the only way he'd lose his job here is if I ran out of work for him to do! I am just framing my perspective so that a religious person might comprehend it. e.g., Santa Claus is an identity that some people believe in at some point but not at another, and at that later point they (hopefully) have zero doubt about their belief. To get it further back on track: If I suggested that you (marcamillion, not frederick) believed in Santa Claus to get better presents, how would you even do it? You know Santa doesn't actually deliver presents with his reindeer, right? You'd stake your house and life on it, surely?
    - marcamillion 16y ago
      The question about believing in Santa...as in...how do you do it? That's a very interesting question. I never thought of it like that before. The truth is, I don't know the answer to that. Given that I don't know how to believe in Santa, I can't say I would stake my house and life on it.
      - prawn 16y ago
        I was saying that you'd stake your house and life on Santa Claus (as the entity that delivers presents to every child in one night with his reindeer) not existing. Not even the smallest bit of doubt enters your head. You are absolutely 100% confident. That's how many atheists feel about the god considered by most Christians. Short of some insane brainwashing, it's just not possible to force yourself to "believe" just in case it proves useful later.
c3o 16y ago
By that logic you'd need to believe in every single religion at once to hedge your bet, since most only promise the afterlife to adherents of their specific belief system. That aside, how can you say it'd "cost nothing"? It would cost me my integrity. Another debunking of this argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU
- anthonyb 16y ago
  It'd also cost you a lot of Sunday mornings, at least if you did it properly.
tharris7 16y ago
This is basically Pascal's Wager. The main criticism, I think, is that you could be "hedging your bet" on the Christian God, when the actual God could be from a different "religion". Some religions place a lot of emphasis on their god being the one and only.
sandofsky 16y ago
"What will it cost you to believe in God while you are alive?" Time. Money. Freedoms.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
Rhapso 16y ago
Actually this is an age old logical fallacy called Pascal's Wager. Because it is just as likely for there to be a anti-Pascalian god as there is to be a pascal friendly god, then belief in god is a zero sum game from the point of view of all things being equal hypothetical logic.
Rhapso 16y ago
Actually this is an age old logical fallacy called Pascal's Wager. Because it is just as likely for there to be a anti-Pascalian god as there is to be a pascal friendly god, then belief in god is a zero sum game from the point of view of all things being equal hypothetical logic.
memetichazard 16y ago
My preferred counterargument to this (Pascal's Wager) is that assuming there is a god, professing to believe in him just to avoid eternal damnation is more likely to damn you than being honest. Does believing for the sake of belief count as belief? (see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkas_toxin_puzzle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkas_toxin_puzzle) which feels related) And there is the problem of 'multitude of religions' which other people (and you) have mentioned.

tkahn6 16y ago

This is known as Pascal's Wager. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascals_Wager http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascals_Wager

marcamillion 16y ago
Very interesting...never knew about this. Thanks!

prawn 16y ago

"So why not believe?" How is it that easy? We're not picking a team to support in the Finals series. The idea of believing in a "god" to me is as foreign as believing in a tooth fairy. When an employee of mine is openly religious, it is to me akin to him espousing a belief in something purely fantastical - tooth fairy, Santa Claus, etc. His choice and I don't deride it, but to me it is all entirely bizarre. When I look at mysteries of our existence, of the creation of our universe, at no point does any fibre of my being whatsoever think to consider that a god-like higher power might be behind it all. And even if you could force yourself to believe, without doubt, which god are you going to believe in to guarantee yourself some sort of 'eternity'?

frederickcook 16y ago
Might not be the best idea to comment on your personal feelings regarding an employee's religious affiliation. It'd suck to have a HN post submitted as evidence in a discrimination lawsuit. Edit: Why the down-vote? The parent has his company and website in his info. No idea what it's like in AUS, but in the states, if someone was fired and there was any ambiguity regarding the reason, this comment could be be admissible in court to demonstrate a prior discriminatory attitude toward people based on their religion.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- prawn 16y ago
  Thanks for the reminder - obviously it's something that some people might be concerned about and if I wanted to play it especially safely, I would. I don't discriminate against the guy. We are open about our positions and can discuss it at the right times, but all it is, is a difference in belief in one aspect of life (admittedly, a big aspect of his life). I pay him more than I pay myself and he is an invaluable employee who does great work for me. I think the only way he'd lose his job here is if I ran out of work for him to do! I am just framing my perspective so that a religious person might comprehend it. e.g., Santa Claus is an identity that some people believe in at some point but not at another, and at that later point they (hopefully) have zero doubt about their belief. To get it further back on track: If I suggested that you (marcamillion, not frederick) believed in Santa Claus to get better presents, how would you even do it? You know Santa doesn't actually deliver presents with his reindeer, right? You'd stake your house and life on it, surely?
  - marcamillion 16y ago
    The question about believing in Santa...as in...how do you do it? That's a very interesting question. I never thought of it like that before. The truth is, I don't know the answer to that. Given that I don't know how to believe in Santa, I can't say I would stake my house and life on it.
    - prawn 16y ago
      I was saying that you'd stake your house and life on Santa Claus (as the entity that delivers presents to every child in one night with his reindeer) not existing. Not even the smallest bit of doubt enters your head. You are absolutely 100% confident. That's how many atheists feel about the god considered by most Christians. Short of some insane brainwashing, it's just not possible to force yourself to "believe" just in case it proves useful later.

c3o 16y ago

By that logic you'd need to believe in every single religion at once to hedge your bet, since most only promise the afterlife to adherents of their specific belief system. That aside, how can you say it'd "cost nothing"? It would cost me my integrity. Another debunking of this argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU

anthonyb 16y ago
It'd also cost you a lot of Sunday mornings, at least if you did it properly.

tharris7 16y ago

This is basically Pascal's Wager. The main criticism, I think, is that you could be "hedging your bet" on the Christian God, when the actual God could be from a different "religion". Some religions place a lot of emphasis on their god being the one and only.

sandofsky 16y ago

"What will it cost you to believe in God while you are alive?" Time. Money. Freedoms.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

Rhapso 16y ago

Actually this is an age old logical fallacy called Pascal's Wager. Because it is just as likely for there to be a anti-Pascalian god as there is to be a pascal friendly god, then belief in god is a zero sum game from the point of view of all things being equal hypothetical logic.

Rhapso 16y ago

memetichazard 16y ago

My preferred counterargument to this (Pascal's Wager) is that assuming there is a god, professing to believe in him just to avoid eternal damnation is more likely to damn you than being honest. Does believing for the sake of belief count as belief? (see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkas_toxin_puzzle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkas_toxin_puzzle) which feels related) And there is the problem of 'multitude of religions' which other people (and you) have mentioned.