7 ms·

> "i ... live on less than $25k a year." there's no way i can believe that. my rent alone is $24,000.

ianferrel 9y ago
He probably owns his home. Most people who own property don't count the imputed rent as part of their expenses. Whether they should depends a lot on context.
- cardiffspaceman 9y ago
  Imputed rent doesn't seem like a strong concept here. If someone wants to imagine expenses, then they can certainly imagine that the player bought an annuity that pays his landlord the rent forever, so that imagining the imputed rent has to come out of his 25K is like double-counting the rent.
  - ianferrel 9y ago
    I'm not 100% sure I understand your comment.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  Even without owning one's own home, not all areas have high rent, even within the same state. California, for example, has a pretty big swing in rents between the Bay Area and even Sacramento, let alone somewhere further north or south in the Central Valley.
nerpderp83 9y ago
Baltimore.
dkrich 9y ago
Keep in mind that he's an NFL player, so he's in the offseason for most of the year, so he can live pretty much anywhere he wants. During the season a large portion of his costs are paid for by the team (hotels, meals, etc.). I can definitely believe that as a football player he can get by on less than $25k of his own money.
jaredtobin 9y ago
It's not that hard to believe. Here [1] is a somewhat e-famous example of a three-person family whose annual spending is around ~$25k. [1]: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/01/16/exposed-the-mmm-familys-2014-spending/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/01/16/exposed-the-mmm-fa...
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  To be fair, I believe all of MMM's calculations exclude housing, since they own their house outright.
- nikofeyn 9y ago
  that's an extreme case you linked. he specifically called out it wasn't because he was frugal.
claystu 9y ago
I believe it. If he owns everything free and clear--I'm betting he does--and he avoids big purchases and fancy trips, he can basically get by on purchasing nothing but food, electricity, phone, and gas. Tack on some clothes and reasonable eating out, and you can live well on $25,000 per year. Everything else was probably paid for by the team.
- gist 9y ago
  > If he owns everything free and clear So ok say he owns his house. You still have property taxes (in some places can run from 1 to 4% of property value) upkeep family costs and so on. > and you can live well on $25,000 per year Not with a family. Not in a safe area or what most would consider a 'nice' area.
  - ljf 9y ago
    Really? https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ seems to do OK with him, his wife and his child living on a similar amount.
- nikofeyn 9y ago
  yea, i thought that might be the case, but it makes his comment heavily caveated since it's entirely dependent on his employment with the nfl.
Govindae 9y ago
From this, we can conclude that John is not your roommate.
gervase 9y ago
Excluding housing and healthcare, our annual expenses for the last year were roughly $11,800 for a family of 4. Not fun, but doable.
civilitty 9y ago
During the season and much of the off season the team probably pays for accommodations, meals, transportation, healthcare, etc. Also, this is Baltimore we're talking about. The only places you can reasonably spend that much in rent in Baltimore is luxury developments on the waterfront and around Patterson Park.
herthdrht3 9y ago
If you really can't believe that, you need to get out more. FYI I live in a fairly major US city and my rent is a quarter of yours. Your life experience is not normal.
- nikofeyn 9y ago
  i get out plenty. my apartment is even under market. i don't live with roommates. there is literally no way to get an apartment anywhere close to 50% cheaper by yourself in the market i am in. my experience is perfectly normal here. even in my previous city (a major US city), my rent was only 50% less than it is now. and in that market it would be equally as hard to find one at 50% of that price. if you live for a quarter of what i currently rent, then you must undoubtedly live with roommates or live in a not so great place (which is fine) or both, all of which i consider being frugal, which he stated he wasn't. or you simply live in a completely different market.
  - herthdrht3 9y ago
    No roommates, just a different market. I live in Minneapolis which I do consider to be a great place. That said, the vast majority of Americans live in "different markets" than what you've described, so you might do well to understand how 24k/yr in rent is not normal for most people.
    - anth1988 9y ago
      > which I do consider to be a great place I'd rather pay 2k a month than deal with winters. I grew up with snow. I'm over it.
    - nikofeyn 9y ago
      i suppose the disconnect happening in the replies is that people assume i meant normal in my rent amount. my original comment was meant to compare what an nfl player, with a family i might add, supposedly lives off of in entire year to my, me being a middle class single person, yearly rent (whether that rent is high or low or normal). so sure, he and many may live much cheaper. but cheap enough such that his taxes, utilities, food, family care, general bills, purchases, etc. all still add up to $24,000. i doubt it without heavy caveats to that number he gave.
wott 9y ago
And yet you believe that this is even remotely normal: > my rent alone is $24,000.
- ballenf 9y ago
  Good point. In most of the US, a decent 2-bedroom apartment can be had for <$1,000 / mo. An apartment that would be considered quite large by international standards.
  - 13of40 9y ago
    Sure, but imagine a stereotypical American family with three kids, two cars, maybe a dog, and both parents working professional jobs. I don't see how you could consider it abnormal for them to spend $2000 a month to rent a house in the suburbs. If you're talking "globally normal" that's one thing, but by that standard nearly everyone within a thousand miles of me is in abnormally large and expensive housing.
    - acqq 9y ago
      > but by that standard nearly everyone within a thousand miles of me is in abnormally large and expensive housing. Speaking from another side of the ocean, it's really true. According to the statistics about energy used per capita, it's some oil producing lands and the US. And that even doesn't count all the stuff that ends on the US landfills.
    - majormajor 9y ago
      > Sure, but imagine a stereotypical American family with three kids, two cars, maybe a dog, and both parents working professional jobs. I don't see how you could consider it abnormal for them to spend $2000 a month to rent a house in the suburbs. That's a massively expensive and large house for the stereotypical American family in the majority of the country. (They're also not going to be paying 2K to rent a house in the suburb, they're much more likely to be paying off a 200K mortgage, looking at the median US home price as well as the median in areas like Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte...) If you're paying a lot more than that you're either abnormal in terms of "spending way more than most / you have to" way or abnormal in the "you live in a super expensive area" way.
ljf 9y ago
Check out https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ lives a very comfortable life on a low amount (though he's damn rich now even if he doesn't spend it)

He probably owns his home. Most people who own property don't count the imputed rent as part of their expenses. Whether they should depends a lot on context.

cardiffspaceman 9y ago
Imputed rent doesn't seem like a strong concept here. If someone wants to imagine expenses, then they can certainly imagine that the player bought an annuity that pays his landlord the rent forever, so that imagining the imputed rent has to come out of his 25K is like double-counting the rent.
- ianferrel 9y ago
  I'm not 100% sure I understand your comment.
yellowapple 9y ago
Even without owning one's own home, not all areas have high rent, even within the same state. California, for example, has a pretty big swing in rents between the Bay Area and even Sacramento, let alone somewhere further north or south in the Central Valley.

nerpderp83 9y ago

Baltimore.

dkrich 9y ago

Keep in mind that he's an NFL player, so he's in the offseason for most of the year, so he can live pretty much anywhere he wants. During the season a large portion of his costs are paid for by the team (hotels, meals, etc.). I can definitely believe that as a football player he can get by on less than $25k of his own money.

jaredtobin 9y ago

It's not that hard to believe. Here [1] is a somewhat e-famous example of a three-person family whose annual spending is around ~$25k. [1]: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/01/16/exposed-the-mmm-familys-2014-spending/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/01/16/exposed-the-mmm-fa...

toasterlovin 9y ago
To be fair, I believe all of MMM's calculations exclude housing, since they own their house outright.
nikofeyn 9y ago
that's an extreme case you linked. he specifically called out it wasn't because he was frugal.

claystu 9y ago

I believe it. If he owns everything free and clear--I'm betting he does--and he avoids big purchases and fancy trips, he can basically get by on purchasing nothing but food, electricity, phone, and gas. Tack on some clothes and reasonable eating out, and you can live well on $25,000 per year. Everything else was probably paid for by the team.

gist 9y ago
> If he owns everything free and clear So ok say he owns his house. You still have property taxes (in some places can run from 1 to 4% of property value) upkeep family costs and so on. > and you can live well on $25,000 per year Not with a family. Not in a safe area or what most would consider a 'nice' area.
- ljf 9y ago
  Really? https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ seems to do OK with him, his wife and his child living on a similar amount.
nikofeyn 9y ago
yea, i thought that might be the case, but it makes his comment heavily caveated since it's entirely dependent on his employment with the nfl.

Govindae 9y ago

From this, we can conclude that John is not your roommate.

gervase 9y ago

Excluding housing and healthcare, our annual expenses for the last year were roughly $11,800 for a family of 4. Not fun, but doable.

civilitty 9y ago

During the season and much of the off season the team probably pays for accommodations, meals, transportation, healthcare, etc. Also, this is Baltimore we're talking about. The only places you can reasonably spend that much in rent in Baltimore is luxury developments on the waterfront and around Patterson Park.

herthdrht3 9y ago

If you really can't believe that, you need to get out more. FYI I live in a fairly major US city and my rent is a quarter of yours. Your life experience is not normal.

nikofeyn 9y ago
i get out plenty. my apartment is even under market. i don't live with roommates. there is literally no way to get an apartment anywhere close to 50% cheaper by yourself in the market i am in. my experience is perfectly normal here. even in my previous city (a major US city), my rent was only 50% less than it is now. and in that market it would be equally as hard to find one at 50% of that price. if you live for a quarter of what i currently rent, then you must undoubtedly live with roommates or live in a not so great place (which is fine) or both, all of which i consider being frugal, which he stated he wasn't. or you simply live in a completely different market.
- herthdrht3 9y ago
  No roommates, just a different market. I live in Minneapolis which I do consider to be a great place. That said, the vast majority of Americans live in "different markets" than what you've described, so you might do well to understand how 24k/yr in rent is not normal for most people.
  - anth1988 9y ago
    > which I do consider to be a great place I'd rather pay 2k a month than deal with winters. I grew up with snow. I'm over it.
  - nikofeyn 9y ago
    i suppose the disconnect happening in the replies is that people assume i meant normal in my rent amount. my original comment was meant to compare what an nfl player, with a family i might add, supposedly lives off of in entire year to my, me being a middle class single person, yearly rent (whether that rent is high or low or normal). so sure, he and many may live much cheaper. but cheap enough such that his taxes, utilities, food, family care, general bills, purchases, etc. all still add up to $24,000. i doubt it without heavy caveats to that number he gave.

wott 9y ago

And yet you believe that this is even remotely normal: > my rent alone is $24,000.

ballenf 9y ago
Good point. In most of the US, a decent 2-bedroom apartment can be had for <$1,000 / mo. An apartment that would be considered quite large by international standards.
- 13of40 9y ago
  Sure, but imagine a stereotypical American family with three kids, two cars, maybe a dog, and both parents working professional jobs. I don't see how you could consider it abnormal for them to spend $2000 a month to rent a house in the suburbs. If you're talking "globally normal" that's one thing, but by that standard nearly everyone within a thousand miles of me is in abnormally large and expensive housing.
  - acqq 9y ago
    > but by that standard nearly everyone within a thousand miles of me is in abnormally large and expensive housing. Speaking from another side of the ocean, it's really true. According to the statistics about energy used per capita, it's some oil producing lands and the US. And that even doesn't count all the stuff that ends on the US landfills.
  - majormajor 9y ago
    > Sure, but imagine a stereotypical American family with three kids, two cars, maybe a dog, and both parents working professional jobs. I don't see how you could consider it abnormal for them to spend $2000 a month to rent a house in the suburbs. That's a massively expensive and large house for the stereotypical American family in the majority of the country. (They're also not going to be paying 2K to rent a house in the suburb, they're much more likely to be paying off a 200K mortgage, looking at the median US home price as well as the median in areas like Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte...) If you're paying a lot more than that you're either abnormal in terms of "spending way more than most / you have to" way or abnormal in the "you live in a super expensive area" way.

ljf 9y ago

Check out https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ lives a very comfortable life on a low amount (though he's damn rich now even if he doesn't spend it)