5 ms·

> a study showing 99% of NFL players had chronic brain issues (Cte) Just to quibble but I understood that the study revealed that 99% of the group inspected h

> a study showing 99% of NFL players had chronic brain issues (Cte) Just to quibble but I understood that the study revealed that 99% of the group inspected had CTE. The group was not intended to be cross-section of the general population of NFL players. Not to trivialize the results but I think you extended them beyond what they said.

grogenaut 9y ago
Fixed I think
mikeash 9y ago
The study was definitely not a representative sample. On the other hand, if it turns out that the sample was as biased as possible, such that every single player with CTE was in the study, that would still put the incidence at 9%, which is crazy high.
- grogenaut 9y ago
  Having played football through college then aussie rules football for another 9 years I'd definitely like to see some numbers on things like that, recreational hockey, rugby, etc. Not sure how hard it would be to be checked myself. That said, according to my mom I was a complete ahole until I started playing football in 8th grade when I completely mellowed out and started focusing on somthing. Most other sports didn't click with me; I think I needed organized competitive team based wall punching to take out random teenage anger. It's just that maybe I would have taken up golf earlier :) So if the contact or a certain form of contact is the issue, lets either change football to not really have these risks or invent another sport. I mean they're all invented anyway.
  - chowells 9y ago
    The only current test for CTE is dissecting the brain. So for the time being, testing is limited to the dead. I wouldn't be in a rush to get checked.
    - grogenaut 9y ago
      Hrm... weighing the alternatives... it will get rid of this summer cold I have though.
- prostoalex 9y ago
  > if it turns out that the sample was as biased as possible The researcher never claimed it was a sample that one would expect with a scientific study (e.g. control group, test group, variance by age, race, etc.) From the original NYT article: > The set of players posthumously tested by Dr. McKee is far from a random sample of N.F.L. retirees. “There’s a tremendous selection bias,” she has cautioned, noting that many families have donated brains specifically because the former player showed symptoms of C.T.E.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that bias would be unexpected. I just wanted to point out that even in the absolute worst case where the bias of this simple turns out to be as high as it possibly could be, the results are still crazy bad.
Retric 9y ago
Another important consideration is NFL carriers are also much shorter now, the average is less than 3 years which should make a rather dramatic difference. Jackie Slater for comparison was a lineman for 20 seasons (1976-1995). And George Blanda had 26 seasons as a kicker and quarterback.
- cvwright 9y ago
  I assume you meant to say "NFL careers"? For a second there, I thought you were talking about the average height of NFL running backs, and I was very confused...

grogenaut 9y ago

Fixed I think

mikeash 9y ago

The study was definitely not a representative sample. On the other hand, if it turns out that the sample was as biased as possible, such that every single player with CTE was in the study, that would still put the incidence at 9%, which is crazy high.

grogenaut 9y ago
Having played football through college then aussie rules football for another 9 years I'd definitely like to see some numbers on things like that, recreational hockey, rugby, etc. Not sure how hard it would be to be checked myself. That said, according to my mom I was a complete ahole until I started playing football in 8th grade when I completely mellowed out and started focusing on somthing. Most other sports didn't click with me; I think I needed organized competitive team based wall punching to take out random teenage anger. It's just that maybe I would have taken up golf earlier :) So if the contact or a certain form of contact is the issue, lets either change football to not really have these risks or invent another sport. I mean they're all invented anyway.
- chowells 9y ago
  The only current test for CTE is dissecting the brain. So for the time being, testing is limited to the dead. I wouldn't be in a rush to get checked.
  - grogenaut 9y ago
    Hrm... weighing the alternatives... it will get rid of this summer cold I have though.
prostoalex 9y ago
> if it turns out that the sample was as biased as possible The researcher never claimed it was a sample that one would expect with a scientific study (e.g. control group, test group, variance by age, race, etc.) From the original NYT article: > The set of players posthumously tested by Dr. McKee is far from a random sample of N.F.L. retirees. “There’s a tremendous selection bias,” she has cautioned, noting that many families have donated brains specifically because the former player showed symptoms of C.T.E.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that bias would be unexpected. I just wanted to point out that even in the absolute worst case where the bias of this simple turns out to be as high as it possibly could be, the results are still crazy bad.

Retric 9y ago

Another important consideration is NFL carriers are also much shorter now, the average is less than 3 years which should make a rather dramatic difference. Jackie Slater for comparison was a lineman for 20 seasons (1976-1995). And George Blanda had 26 seasons as a kicker and quarterback.

cvwright 9y ago
I assume you meant to say "NFL careers"? For a second there, I thought you were talking about the average height of NFL running backs, and I was very confused...