5 ms·

Missed Paganism (or 'Paganism/Newage', as I frequently see it, much to my annoyance). Also, I bet there's at least 14 people here who would fill out 'Jedi' on

Missed Paganism (or 'Paganism/Newage', as I frequently see it, much to my annoyance). Also, I bet there's at least 14 people here who would fill out 'Jedi' on their census form.

hugh3 16y ago
Is Paganism a religion, or a large collection of (now defunct and poorly-understood) religions? What are the ontological claims of paganism? Precisely which supernatural beings does paganism assert the existence of?
- philwelch 16y ago
  There's actual paganism, which is gone. If you ever hear someone say "nobody seriously thinks Thor exists anymore", they're talking about paganism. In recent decades, people (for whatever reason) decided to try and restart paganism--if you meet a "pagan" today, they're actually following one of these reconstituted religions. I personally have trouble taking neopaganism seriously, largely because I've never known any serious neopagans, only disaffected suburban teenage girls who wanted some excuse, however flimsy, to be nonconformists. I've known people who took religion seriously, and I've known neopagans, but I've never met anyone in the intersection set. So my perception of neopaganism is quite dismissive.
  - semanticist 16y ago
    If your only experience of OSS was Richard Stallman, you might dismiss everyone who contributes to open source software as a bearded lunatic. There's a lot of very serious and studious Pagans out there, but they don't tend to be as obviously 'look at me, I'm SPOOKY' as the kids you're talking about. For a trivially easy to find example, consider the Pagan Federation. In Scotland they work with government interfaith groups and are consulted for things like religious diversity training material and non-denominational chapels in hospitals. Most Pagans I know look a lot more like RMS than someone who shops at Hot Topic.
    - philwelch 16y ago
      I guess my other problem with neopaganism is the same problem I have with all new religious movements. Any religion is irrational, but older religions at least have the excuse that you were likely born and raised in them, and the wider society may in fact pressure you into taking them seriously. If you're nonconformist enough to reject traditional religion, being taken in by nontraditional religion makes you more of a mark than the typical Christian.
- semanticist 16y ago
  Modern Paganism (or 'neopaganism', but that's a mouthful and unnecessary when it's obvious from context you don't mean ancient paganism) is really an umbrella term that covers a pretty wide range of religious beliefs and practices. There's Wicca, who believe in most of the things you see in the 'Idiots Guide' books to Witchcraft, there's various different breeds of reconstructionists who take archeological information about the ancient Pagan religions, fill in the many blanks to make it more appropriate for modern life, and have a go at that. They might believe in anything from the Norse pantheon to the Greek one. There's Druids, who are proper nature-worshippers and really do perform ceremonies at Stonehenge, when they get a chance in between all the hippies. There's technopagans, who believe in the spirit in the machine. LeVay Satanists tend to get included under 'Paganism', although they might object. Same with Discordians. It's an eclectic group.
mkramlich 16y ago
that's a precise number to bet thanks now I'm picturing a stealthed YC startup with exactly 14 employees, and their business is making and selling light-sabres
- josefresco 16y ago
  His Jedi-sense told him it was 14.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    upvote you I will! for the Karma is my ally, and a strong ally it is

Missed Paganism (or 'Paganism/Newage', as I frequently see it, much to my annoyance). Also, I bet there's at least 14 people here who would fill out 'Jedi' on their census form.

hugh3 16y ago

Is Paganism a religion, or a large collection of (now defunct and poorly-understood) religions? What are the ontological claims of paganism? Precisely which supernatural beings does paganism assert the existence of?

philwelch 16y ago
There's actual paganism, which is gone. If you ever hear someone say "nobody seriously thinks Thor exists anymore", they're talking about paganism. In recent decades, people (for whatever reason) decided to try and restart paganism--if you meet a "pagan" today, they're actually following one of these reconstituted religions. I personally have trouble taking neopaganism seriously, largely because I've never known any serious neopagans, only disaffected suburban teenage girls who wanted some excuse, however flimsy, to be nonconformists. I've known people who took religion seriously, and I've known neopagans, but I've never met anyone in the intersection set. So my perception of neopaganism is quite dismissive.
- semanticist 16y ago
  If your only experience of OSS was Richard Stallman, you might dismiss everyone who contributes to open source software as a bearded lunatic. There's a lot of very serious and studious Pagans out there, but they don't tend to be as obviously 'look at me, I'm SPOOKY' as the kids you're talking about. For a trivially easy to find example, consider the Pagan Federation. In Scotland they work with government interfaith groups and are consulted for things like religious diversity training material and non-denominational chapels in hospitals. Most Pagans I know look a lot more like RMS than someone who shops at Hot Topic.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    I guess my other problem with neopaganism is the same problem I have with all new religious movements. Any religion is irrational, but older religions at least have the excuse that you were likely born and raised in them, and the wider society may in fact pressure you into taking them seriously. If you're nonconformist enough to reject traditional religion, being taken in by nontraditional religion makes you more of a mark than the typical Christian.
semanticist 16y ago
Modern Paganism (or 'neopaganism', but that's a mouthful and unnecessary when it's obvious from context you don't mean ancient paganism) is really an umbrella term that covers a pretty wide range of religious beliefs and practices. There's Wicca, who believe in most of the things you see in the 'Idiots Guide' books to Witchcraft, there's various different breeds of reconstructionists who take archeological information about the ancient Pagan religions, fill in the many blanks to make it more appropriate for modern life, and have a go at that. They might believe in anything from the Norse pantheon to the Greek one. There's Druids, who are proper nature-worshippers and really do perform ceremonies at Stonehenge, when they get a chance in between all the hippies. There's technopagans, who believe in the spirit in the machine. LeVay Satanists tend to get included under 'Paganism', although they might object. Same with Discordians. It's an eclectic group.

mkramlich 16y ago

that's a precise number to bet thanks now I'm picturing a stealthed YC startup with exactly 14 employees, and their business is making and selling light-sabres

josefresco 16y ago
His Jedi-sense told him it was 14.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  upvote you I will! for the Karma is my ally, and a strong ally it is