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I think it's a little harsh to say that I "completely missed the point" of this article. I get it -- Apple products are very polished and carefully designed and

I think it's a little harsh to say that I "completely missed the point" of this article. I get it -- Apple products are very polished and carefully designed and the Android lacks that polish but is feature rich. Is that an accurate description, or did I completely miss something else? Marco is a developer with some very successful products, and I really respect his work. I feel that makes him influential in the hacker community and this post did make it rather high on HN. However, respecting Apple's products has gone too far when I can barely tell it from a PR piece. I don't know what it is, but it's not news. I really don't want to begin discussing regular Joe's desktop experience -- summarizing people into 2 camps trivializes the actual wants and needs of a computer user. What I can tell you is that on a site devoted to hacker news, this post seems like 'dog bites man' with an easy shot at a strawman. I don't mean this to be a biting criticism. As a developer, I just wish that I had started using linux earlier because I would have learned a lot more and it would be more second nature. Out there, someone 10 years younger than me is being turned off from using linux on the desktop because of posts like this, and that's a shame.

sandee 16y ago
> As a developer, I just wish that I had started using linux earlier because I would have learned a lot more and it Total agree. After years of windows, i moved to Linux Desktop since last 2 years. How i wish, i had done that earlier.
Robin_Message 16y ago
> I think it's a little harsh to say that I "completely missed the point" of this article. I get it -- Apple products are very polished and carefully designed and the Android lacks that polish but is feature rich. Is that an accurate description, or did I completely miss something else? What you are missing is that what you are calling "polish" is 90% of the quality of a product to a consumer. It's not about gradients or drop shadows. It's about saying no in the development process, and making sure everything just works. To give a counter-example of polish, here is a problem I had on my work machine. It was recently upgraded to Fedora Core 11, a seemingly sensible choice. When I first logged in, the volume control mumbled something about having been deleted. I had a look for another one, only to discover that there is no simple volume control. For some development reason, which I don't give a shit about, someone has removed the existing volume control, and some other subsystem is meant to provide one, but they haven't gotten around to it yet. That is why Linux on the desktop is dead, and as long as Linux is developed in the bazaar, it will always be dead (but great for geeks!)
MrFoof 16y ago
"I really don't want to begin discussing regular Joe's desktop experience -- summarizing people into 2 camps trivializes the actual wants and needs of a computer user." You can put people into two camps about most anything -- enthusiasts, and everyone else. This applies to cooking. Cars. Television. Sports. Video games. Interior design. Phones. Music. Architecture. Computers. Gardening. Reading... and I'm running out of objects by looking about my apartment, but the crux is that some people give objects and activities a large amount of attention when compared to the vast majority of the population - that doesn't give a rat's tail about anything beyond the most basic functionality. Many developers, or at least the ones that frequent forums on computing topics, are just that - enthusiasts. They are very savvy, very passionate, and sometimes considerably out of touch with everyone who doesn't care nearly as much. There's a distinct difference between someone who waits months and months for a specific type of TV to come out, pays 4x as much for it compared to other TVs for its size, and can take advantage of all the features they paid for. This isn't surprising as they've become a bit of a domain expert on the points that relate to their needs. However most people just want the biggest, flattest TV they can buy for the lowest price. Would I like random mass storage on the iPhone? Sure, why not. My mom? My mother after 17 years still doesn't know what directories her files end up in (Profile\My Documents or \Profile). She has my father assist her in getting her music on her iPod. Recently I said, "Mom, you use a computer every day. You need to remember where (Windows, OS X) puts your files" in which she retorted, "No, I just want to send Lorraine some photos. I don't care how it works." And that's it. Most people want to just get something done on a computer. Most people just want to drive to the store. Most people just want to have fun with a video game and don't care how critically acclaimed it is. Most people just want a roof over their head that looks familiar when compared to other homes they've been in. Most people just want mustard to put on their hot dog and aren't espousing the qualities of some mustard on online forums. And so forth. Everyone else is an anorak. And that's fine as there's a market that caters to them, whereas the rest of the population is still plumbing the first 10% of depth. Everyone is passionate about different things. And most people aren't passionate about most things.

sandee 16y ago

> As a developer, I just wish that I had started using linux earlier because I would have learned a lot more and it Total agree. After years of windows, i moved to Linux Desktop since last 2 years. How i wish, i had done that earlier.

Robin_Message 16y ago

> I think it's a little harsh to say that I "completely missed the point" of this article. I get it -- Apple products are very polished and carefully designed and the Android lacks that polish but is feature rich. Is that an accurate description, or did I completely miss something else? What you are missing is that what you are calling "polish" is 90% of the quality of a product to a consumer. It's not about gradients or drop shadows. It's about saying no in the development process, and making sure everything just works. To give a counter-example of polish, here is a problem I had on my work machine. It was recently upgraded to Fedora Core 11, a seemingly sensible choice. When I first logged in, the volume control mumbled something about having been deleted. I had a look for another one, only to discover that there is no simple volume control. For some development reason, which I don't give a shit about, someone has removed the existing volume control, and some other subsystem is meant to provide one, but they haven't gotten around to it yet. That is why Linux on the desktop is dead, and as long as Linux is developed in the bazaar, it will always be dead (but great for geeks!)

MrFoof 16y ago

"I really don't want to begin discussing regular Joe's desktop experience -- summarizing people into 2 camps trivializes the actual wants and needs of a computer user." You can put people into two camps about most anything -- enthusiasts, and everyone else. This applies to cooking. Cars. Television. Sports. Video games. Interior design. Phones. Music. Architecture. Computers. Gardening. Reading... and I'm running out of objects by looking about my apartment, but the crux is that some people give objects and activities a large amount of attention when compared to the vast majority of the population - that doesn't give a rat's tail about anything beyond the most basic functionality. Many developers, or at least the ones that frequent forums on computing topics, are just that - enthusiasts. They are very savvy, very passionate, and sometimes considerably out of touch with everyone who doesn't care nearly as much. There's a distinct difference between someone who waits months and months for a specific type of TV to come out, pays 4x as much for it compared to other TVs for its size, and can take advantage of all the features they paid for. This isn't surprising as they've become a bit of a domain expert on the points that relate to their needs. However most people just want the biggest, flattest TV they can buy for the lowest price. Would I like random mass storage on the iPhone? Sure, why not. My mom? My mother after 17 years still doesn't know what directories her files end up in (Profile\My Documents or \Profile). She has my father assist her in getting her music on her iPod. Recently I said, "Mom, you use a computer every day. You need to remember where (Windows, OS X) puts your files" in which she retorted, "No, I just want to send Lorraine some photos. I don't care how it works." And that's it. Most people want to just get something done on a computer. Most people just want to drive to the store. Most people just want to have fun with a video game and don't care how critically acclaimed it is. Most people just want a roof over their head that looks familiar when compared to other homes they've been in. Most people just want mustard to put on their hot dog and aren't espousing the qualities of some mustard on online forums. And so forth. Everyone else is an anorak. And that's fine as there's a market that caters to them, whereas the rest of the population is still plumbing the first 10% of depth. Everyone is passionate about different things. And most people aren't passionate about most things.