5 ms·

Yes but supporting the feature encourages developers to make web apps. Why would you want to encourage that?

SquareWheel 9y ago
Why wouldn't you want that? PWAs are seamless (no downloading/installing), allow native features, can be saved offline for later, run in a secure sandbox, and are completely open and cross-platform.
- interpol_p 9y ago
  I don't really value cross-platform in the sense that the code I write for platform A can run on platform B. At least for applications. I think it's valuable for games. Unity and Unreal engine have demonstrated that. Applications necessarily intersect with the underlying platform in a way which games do not. Accessibility, system-wide services (e.g., dictionary), system-wide interactions (e.g., drag and drop). There are reasons I choose macOS, and when applications embrace the design philosophy and features of the platform they become great applications. PWAs will not do this to the same extent (and if they try to, the effort would be so significant they might as well go native). I feel strongly that the platforms you develop for should be the platforms you love using. And so the things you develop should bring out the best and most valuable features of those platforms. I would rather encourage developers to embrace each platform's strengths. I understand that many companies might not care — they want as many users as possible as cheaply as possible. But I do not appreciate that attitude at all.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  I'm pretty sure it boils down to "we're fancy iOS users who want nothing to do with those peasants over in the Android world". It seems like the majority of the comments opposing web apps oppose them because they're cross-platform and not written specifically for their chosen platform, which is a very silly stance to have. There are some more coherent arguments in play, don't get me wrong (in particular, the argument that web apps are a bastardization of what the World Wide Web was intended to be for; I agree with that wholeheartedly), but a lot of the rhetoric around here really reeks of elitism.
  - interpol_p 9y ago
    I've written quite a few apps for both iOS and Android. While I'm not an Android user, when I build an Android app I try to embrace the platform's strengths. I try to understand best practice, and follow the designs encouraged by Google. The resulting apps often look and behave completely differently between iOS and Android because the platforms are so different. I have mixed opinions about a lot of Android's design philosophy, but there's no way I would build an Android app that didn't conform to the platform. Because I expect Android users enjoy consistency too. There's probably some elitism in there. But there still is no web app on macOS or iOS that feels good, consistent and integrated in the same way that a good native app feels.
    - Ajedi32 9y ago
      > But there still is no web app on macOS or iOS that feels good, consistent and integrated in the same way that a good native app feels. Part of that though is because they _don't_ allow PWAs. Contrast that with Android, where it's now entirely possible to make a PWA so deeply integrated into the OS that the average user can't even tell it's not a native app: https://blog.chromium.org/2017/02/integrating-progressive-web-apps-deeply.html https://blog.chromium.org/2017/02/integrating-progressive-we...
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        > Contrast that with Android, where it's now entirely possible to make a PWA so deeply integrated into the OS that the average user can't even tell it's not a native app Oh, but quite many will be able to tell after 5 seconds of using it. The rest will realize the moment the Internet connection drops temporarily.
        Ajedi32 9y ago
        > The rest will realize the moment the Internet connection drops temporarily. Nope. A properly-written PWA will continue working just fine when the user goes offline, just like a native app would.
- scarface74 9y ago
  And that was such a great experience with Java applets....
  - SquareWheel 9y ago
    False equivalence. The points I listed above were not true for Java applets. Applets were not seamless (requiring a plugin to be installed), did not allow most native features, and ran in anything but a secure sandbox. They were open (by nature of the JVM), and cross-platform, but that's it.

Why wouldn't you want that? PWAs are seamless (no downloading/installing), allow native features, can be saved offline for later, run in a secure sandbox, and are completely open and cross-platform.

interpol_p 9y ago
I don't really value cross-platform in the sense that the code I write for platform A can run on platform B. At least for applications. I think it's valuable for games. Unity and Unreal engine have demonstrated that. Applications necessarily intersect with the underlying platform in a way which games do not. Accessibility, system-wide services (e.g., dictionary), system-wide interactions (e.g., drag and drop). There are reasons I choose macOS, and when applications embrace the design philosophy and features of the platform they become great applications. PWAs will not do this to the same extent (and if they try to, the effort would be so significant they might as well go native). I feel strongly that the platforms you develop for should be the platforms you love using. And so the things you develop should bring out the best and most valuable features of those platforms. I would rather encourage developers to embrace each platform's strengths. I understand that many companies might not care — they want as many users as possible as cheaply as possible. But I do not appreciate that attitude at all.
yellowapple 9y ago
I'm pretty sure it boils down to "we're fancy iOS users who want nothing to do with those peasants over in the Android world". It seems like the majority of the comments opposing web apps oppose them because they're cross-platform and not written specifically for their chosen platform, which is a very silly stance to have. There are some more coherent arguments in play, don't get me wrong (in particular, the argument that web apps are a bastardization of what the World Wide Web was intended to be for; I agree with that wholeheartedly), but a lot of the rhetoric around here really reeks of elitism.
- interpol_p 9y ago
  I've written quite a few apps for both iOS and Android. While I'm not an Android user, when I build an Android app I try to embrace the platform's strengths. I try to understand best practice, and follow the designs encouraged by Google. The resulting apps often look and behave completely differently between iOS and Android because the platforms are so different. I have mixed opinions about a lot of Android's design philosophy, but there's no way I would build an Android app that didn't conform to the platform. Because I expect Android users enjoy consistency too. There's probably some elitism in there. But there still is no web app on macOS or iOS that feels good, consistent and integrated in the same way that a good native app feels.
  - Ajedi32 9y ago
    > But there still is no web app on macOS or iOS that feels good, consistent and integrated in the same way that a good native app feels. Part of that though is because they _don't_ allow PWAs. Contrast that with Android, where it's now entirely possible to make a PWA so deeply integrated into the OS that the average user can't even tell it's not a native app: https://blog.chromium.org/2017/02/integrating-progressive-web-apps-deeply.html https://blog.chromium.org/2017/02/integrating-progressive-we...
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      > Contrast that with Android, where it's now entirely possible to make a PWA so deeply integrated into the OS that the average user can't even tell it's not a native app Oh, but quite many will be able to tell after 5 seconds of using it. The rest will realize the moment the Internet connection drops temporarily.
      - Ajedi32 9y ago
        > The rest will realize the moment the Internet connection drops temporarily. Nope. A properly-written PWA will continue working just fine when the user goes offline, just like a native app would.
scarface74 9y ago
And that was such a great experience with Java applets....
- SquareWheel 9y ago
  False equivalence. The points I listed above were not true for Java applets. Applets were not seamless (requiring a plugin to be installed), did not allow most native features, and ran in anything but a secure sandbox. They were open (by nature of the JVM), and cross-platform, but that's it.