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This is a huge bullshit article. RoR is not out it just is not sexy anymore and there are way more Java jobs than Ruby jobs. Bootcamps are businesses like any o

This is a huge bullshit article. RoR is not out it just is not sexy anymore and there are way more Java jobs than Ruby jobs. Bootcamps are businesses like any others and they only care about making money. Of course they ditch Ruby/RoR if their customers want to learn the tech that is in demand. If you compare the raw numbers the only stacks worth learning are Java,C# and JavaScript.

LogicX 9y ago
Also last I checked, if your rank goes from 12th to 9th, that's an improvement, not a drop.
- mkorfmann 9y ago
  It dropped from 9th to 12th place.
aaron-lebo 9y ago
RoR is not out it just is not sexy anymore Of course they ditch Ruby/RoR if their customers want to learn the tech that is in demand. You seem to be agreeing with the article but disagreeing over phrasing? Ruby and Rails aren't special anymore, there's lots of other languages which can do the same thing but have huge advantages. Then again, that was the case going back to 2007 (Pylons is but one example - the Rails template on a better VM and with more libraries available and none of the bloat and magic). Rails has always been about hype and that hype doesn't matter when other stacks have 10x the performance and are just as productive. Brb, gonna go kill some zombie fcgi processes.
- holydude 9y ago
  RoR is special that it does one thing exceptionally well. And that is monolithic web applications. I do not know how you measure productivity no other stack comes close to RoR.
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    It really depends on what exactly you are doing. If you are churning out business-y apps pretty regularly Rails gems are really useful. Otherwise, there's nothing there other stacks don't have. Scaffolding generation, validation, command line tools, good templating, routing, routing for apis, ORMs, etc, that stuff is built into almost any framework these days and if it isn't it is because you are using a microframework by choice. You have dozens of frameworks across various languages that approach the functionality of Rails. Django is certainly very comparable, and a good Django dev can pump out apps as quickly as a Rails dev. Stacks in other languages are doing things Rails is incapable of and they have borrowed all of the benefits (because Rails does a lot of things right).
  - always_good 9y ago
    On the other hand, I'd say RoR optimizes productivity for Day 1 at the expense of Day 60+. I abandoned RoR because I didn't like that deal.
- mrdrozdov 9y ago
  Can you explain the arguments against Pyramid/Pylons?
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    It was a compliment. Pylons in 2007 was Ben Bangert and other Python devs who had been working the area since the late 90s with Zope and other projects sitting down and more or less porting the good parts of Rails to Python. You had the same routing, you had very very fast templating in Mako, the best ORM in the business in SQLAlchemy, all of the tooling around Rails (scaffolding, testing, etc) and the best part of it was it was all designed to be easily swappable. Didn't like the files that were getting generated with your project? Tweak Paste. Different templating system? Few lines of code to be swapped out. It was a very forward-thinking and well-designed framework at a time when the Python VM was much better than Ruby. Feature for feature it was better than Rails, it just wasn't as popular.
- mrdrozdov 9y ago
  Thanks for the clarification! I interpreted Rails as 'Rails' not 'Rail's' and 'template' as a verb (sorry for the specifics, but I'm at a linguistics conference after all). I've been using Pyramid/Pylons recently and particularly happy with the experience so far. Not sure why it's not more popular, although it's also not particularly a bad thing this is the case.
brandall10 9y ago
I think RoR was initially a good thing for bootcamp curriculum because: 1) it is a comprehensive and easy to pick up stack, at least for proficiency at a jr. level that a coding school would churn out in 3 months 2) it was hot at the time of the rise of the bootcamps, so from a marketing perspective would attract top students 3) RoR shops would be more amenable than most to taking on bootcamp grads and continue to embrace a mentor/mentee relationship for long-term success I think largely #3 is the reason for the switch - bootcamps have now been shown to be a valid source for jr. devs and the enterprise is open to it, hence making java curriculum worthwhile - it certainly will scale better. We're still stuck on #1 though...

LogicX 9y ago

Also last I checked, if your rank goes from 12th to 9th, that's an improvement, not a drop.

mkorfmann 9y ago
It dropped from 9th to 12th place.

aaron-lebo 9y ago

RoR is not out it just is not sexy anymore Of course they ditch Ruby/RoR if their customers want to learn the tech that is in demand. You seem to be agreeing with the article but disagreeing over phrasing? Ruby and Rails aren't special anymore, there's lots of other languages which can do the same thing but have huge advantages. Then again, that was the case going back to 2007 (Pylons is but one example - the Rails template on a better VM and with more libraries available and none of the bloat and magic). Rails has always been about hype and that hype doesn't matter when other stacks have 10x the performance and are just as productive. Brb, gonna go kill some zombie fcgi processes.

holydude 9y ago
RoR is special that it does one thing exceptionally well. And that is monolithic web applications. I do not know how you measure productivity no other stack comes close to RoR.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  It really depends on what exactly you are doing. If you are churning out business-y apps pretty regularly Rails gems are really useful. Otherwise, there's nothing there other stacks don't have. Scaffolding generation, validation, command line tools, good templating, routing, routing for apis, ORMs, etc, that stuff is built into almost any framework these days and if it isn't it is because you are using a microframework by choice. You have dozens of frameworks across various languages that approach the functionality of Rails. Django is certainly very comparable, and a good Django dev can pump out apps as quickly as a Rails dev. Stacks in other languages are doing things Rails is incapable of and they have borrowed all of the benefits (because Rails does a lot of things right).
- always_good 9y ago
  On the other hand, I'd say RoR optimizes productivity for Day 1 at the expense of Day 60+. I abandoned RoR because I didn't like that deal.
mrdrozdov 9y ago
Can you explain the arguments against Pyramid/Pylons?
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  It was a compliment. Pylons in 2007 was Ben Bangert and other Python devs who had been working the area since the late 90s with Zope and other projects sitting down and more or less porting the good parts of Rails to Python. You had the same routing, you had very very fast templating in Mako, the best ORM in the business in SQLAlchemy, all of the tooling around Rails (scaffolding, testing, etc) and the best part of it was it was all designed to be easily swappable. Didn't like the files that were getting generated with your project? Tweak Paste. Different templating system? Few lines of code to be swapped out. It was a very forward-thinking and well-designed framework at a time when the Python VM was much better than Ruby. Feature for feature it was better than Rails, it just wasn't as popular.
mrdrozdov 9y ago
Thanks for the clarification! I interpreted Rails as 'Rails' not 'Rail's' and 'template' as a verb (sorry for the specifics, but I'm at a linguistics conference after all). I've been using Pyramid/Pylons recently and particularly happy with the experience so far. Not sure why it's not more popular, although it's also not particularly a bad thing this is the case.

brandall10 9y ago

I think RoR was initially a good thing for bootcamp curriculum because: 1) it is a comprehensive and easy to pick up stack, at least for proficiency at a jr. level that a coding school would churn out in 3 months 2) it was hot at the time of the rise of the bootcamps, so from a marketing perspective would attract top students 3) RoR shops would be more amenable than most to taking on bootcamp grads and continue to embrace a mentor/mentee relationship for long-term success I think largely #3 is the reason for the switch - bootcamps have now been shown to be a valid source for jr. devs and the enterprise is open to it, hence making java curriculum worthwhile - it certainly will scale better. We're still stuck on #1 though...