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>> the snopes link only refutes a specific picture The article provides statistics as recent as 2016. It does more than refute a single picture. >> Syrian ref

>> the snopes link only refutes a specific picture The article provides statistics as recent as 2016. It does more than refute a single picture. >> Syrian refugees - which are probably the more (perhaps only) deserving of "refugee" status Just off the top of my head: Eritrea, Lybia, Western Iraq, Burma. And that's not counting locally displaced refugees who don't reach Western shores (Burundi, Nigeria, Yemen). Regarding your source: Specifically regarding Sweden, this does not really counter what I said. Your source notes that the demographic that leans (very) heavily male is unaccompanied minors (in fact it seems they account for almost all of the male imbalance in Sweden?). These are not single adult males (I used that term because the linked blog heavily relies on the "dangerous young adult" trope mentioned by Snopes -- by 'single' I mean 'not married'). Your source however does show that there are more adult males registered in Greece and Italy. Quick aside: registered refugees do not get to choose their assigned countries of residence if/when their status as refugee is recognized. I'd say there is quite a world of difference between groups of "young adult males" and unaccompanied minors (who are in that situation presumably because they have lost their families). >> and in fact - especially in Sweden - they are But do you have better sources than this one which says these are boys, not men? The point of my post was that the linked blog made loaded claims without substantiating them, so I only went as far a providing a counter-point. Maybe the current Swedish government does in fact have a policy locally favoring male refugees directly or indirectly (which in absolute is possible since, as noted above, refugees don't get to choose where they end up), but he provided no evidence.

raverbashing 9y ago
"unaccompanied minors" the ones that claim to be 17y.o. when they can get away with it?
- Hasknewbie 9y ago
  I'm sure an overwhelming number of unaccompanied minor refugees are in fact adults claiming to be 17. /s
  - beagle3 9y ago
    Don't be so sure they aren't. They have every incentive in the world to lie. They already violated international law once by seeking refugee status in Sweden instead of first peaceful port. Either way, even if they are just 16, it does not change the fact that two years later, the vast majority of adult refugees are male.
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    "but a study using dental tests in Norway revealed that 9 out of 10 underage refugee children were actually older than 18." https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=3488628 https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&ar...
    - Hasknewbie 9y ago
      Dude, you are quoting an unsourced study about Norway from an article written in 2010.
      - raverbashing 9y ago
        Do you really think the profile is different now? Do you really think people won't lie to get an advantage Naivete is strong it seems
  - Yetanfou 9y ago
    Sweden has started doing medical age tests on migrants who claim to be minors. The tests are still voluntary and the results are not binding in any way. The first results are in with the 'expected' results: 76% of those claiming to be minors are in fact over the age of 18. they tested 581 asylum seekers (96% were men, 4% women). 442 of them (430 men, 12 women) were over 18 according to the test results. 5 of them (all women) were possibly over the age of 18. 134 of them (133 men, 1 woman) were possibly under the age of 18. None of them were certainly under the age of 18. So, yes, those who expected the majority to lie about their age have been proven correct. https://www.rmv.se/aktuellt/de-forsta-medicinska-aldersbedomningarna-klara/ https://www.rmv.se/aktuellt/de-forsta-medicinska-aldersbedom...
beagle3 9y ago
I am on mobile now, can't google efficiently, and the statistics here are lacking either way, but Swedish policy is to accept anyone who claims their are a minor and has no documents to prove otherwise - as a result, young people lose their docs and claim to be less than 18. This was made widely public when a 23-year old who got asylum as a 17-year old killed a social worker at the asylum about a year ago, and investigation showed that at least 10% of "minor" asylum seekers at that place were above 20. Google may give you more details.
- Hasknewbie 9y ago
  I did not know that (and that was certainly more informative than the other guy's post). Although I understand the duty to assist minor, the lack of checks is disturbing, especially since it's likely to not go well for anyone (having known someone who did work on refugee cases a while ago, having no legal documents can lengthen the procedure significantly, so they'll be stuck in a center for years, and they do check testimonies as much as possible, so they may end up getting kicked out). I did Google, and Google tells me Sweden wants to introduce age tests to address this issue (I hope they don't outsource it to IBM). I disagree with your other post regarding the fact that a refugee being 16 or a young adult doesn't change much: what we are discussing here, beside the racist Predatory Brown Men are coming! thing, is the legitimate concern over the necessary cultural integration of refugees in their host country Vs becoming a problem for society. We know that a husband or dad (or a family unit in general) is much less likely to cause any trouble. That would less be the case with a young single adult, who is fully autonomous and has no dependents. A kid, even at 17, is much less autonomous, will have an educator or foster family, will go to school, etc, they are going to be 'enrolled' much more actively into society.
  - beagle3 9y ago
    > A kid, even at 17, is much less autonomous, will have an educator or foster family, will go to school, etc, they are going to be 'enrolled' much more actively into society. That's nice in theory, but it doesn't actually bear out in practice. As one example, according to [0], even second or third generations fail to integrate (with disastrous results), and AFAIK that's the rule rather than the exception (though there are quite a few exceptions, more in the UK, less in mainland Europe). It's not enough if even 50% integrate successfully when the number of immigrants is so high. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/brussels-molenbeek-demographics/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/brussels-molen...

raverbashing 9y ago

"unaccompanied minors" the ones that claim to be 17y.o. when they can get away with it?

Hasknewbie 9y ago
I'm sure an overwhelming number of unaccompanied minor refugees are in fact adults claiming to be 17. /s
- beagle3 9y ago
  Don't be so sure they aren't. They have every incentive in the world to lie. They already violated international law once by seeking refugee status in Sweden instead of first peaceful port. Either way, even if they are just 16, it does not change the fact that two years later, the vast majority of adult refugees are male.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  "but a study using dental tests in Norway revealed that 9 out of 10 underage refugee children were actually older than 18." https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=3488628 https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&ar...
  - Hasknewbie 9y ago
    Dude, you are quoting an unsourced study about Norway from an article written in 2010.
    - raverbashing 9y ago
      Do you really think the profile is different now? Do you really think people won't lie to get an advantage Naivete is strong it seems
- Yetanfou 9y ago
  Sweden has started doing medical age tests on migrants who claim to be minors. The tests are still voluntary and the results are not binding in any way. The first results are in with the 'expected' results: 76% of those claiming to be minors are in fact over the age of 18. they tested 581 asylum seekers (96% were men, 4% women). 442 of them (430 men, 12 women) were over 18 according to the test results. 5 of them (all women) were possibly over the age of 18. 134 of them (133 men, 1 woman) were possibly under the age of 18. None of them were certainly under the age of 18. So, yes, those who expected the majority to lie about their age have been proven correct. https://www.rmv.se/aktuellt/de-forsta-medicinska-aldersbedomningarna-klara/ https://www.rmv.se/aktuellt/de-forsta-medicinska-aldersbedom...

beagle3 9y ago

I am on mobile now, can't google efficiently, and the statistics here are lacking either way, but Swedish policy is to accept anyone who claims their are a minor and has no documents to prove otherwise - as a result, young people lose their docs and claim to be less than 18. This was made widely public when a 23-year old who got asylum as a 17-year old killed a social worker at the asylum about a year ago, and investigation showed that at least 10% of "minor" asylum seekers at that place were above 20. Google may give you more details.

Hasknewbie 9y ago
I did not know that (and that was certainly more informative than the other guy's post). Although I understand the duty to assist minor, the lack of checks is disturbing, especially since it's likely to not go well for anyone (having known someone who did work on refugee cases a while ago, having no legal documents can lengthen the procedure significantly, so they'll be stuck in a center for years, and they do check testimonies as much as possible, so they may end up getting kicked out). I did Google, and Google tells me Sweden wants to introduce age tests to address this issue (I hope they don't outsource it to IBM). I disagree with your other post regarding the fact that a refugee being 16 or a young adult doesn't change much: what we are discussing here, beside the racist Predatory Brown Men are coming! thing, is the legitimate concern over the necessary cultural integration of refugees in their host country Vs becoming a problem for society. We know that a husband or dad (or a family unit in general) is much less likely to cause any trouble. That would less be the case with a young single adult, who is fully autonomous and has no dependents. A kid, even at 17, is much less autonomous, will have an educator or foster family, will go to school, etc, they are going to be 'enrolled' much more actively into society.
- beagle3 9y ago
  > A kid, even at 17, is much less autonomous, will have an educator or foster family, will go to school, etc, they are going to be 'enrolled' much more actively into society. That's nice in theory, but it doesn't actually bear out in practice. As one example, according to [0], even second or third generations fail to integrate (with disastrous results), and AFAIK that's the rule rather than the exception (though there are quite a few exceptions, more in the UK, less in mainland Europe). It's not enough if even 50% integrate successfully when the number of immigrants is so high. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/brussels-molenbeek-demographics/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/brussels-molen...