4 ms·

Well, she was also fired (finally) and her career is finished. I agree it was monumentally stupid. But "punished as high treason"? Treason requires intent. She

Well, she was also fired (finally) and her career is finished. I agree it was monumentally stupid. But "punished as high treason"? Treason requires intent. She most certainly did not intend to be criminally disloyal to the country. Merely being ignorant and incompetent is not treason. This is a major fuckup but let's be real. Our country is a "joke"? I know complaining is a national sport in Sweden, much like in many other countries, and I can rage about plenty of idiotic things going on. But on the whole, things are in general pretty good, relative to most other countries in the world. Move elsewhere and you'll just find a different set of things to be mad about (perhaps more, perhaps less; and there's always a bunch of Swedish expats who complain that things don't work like in Sweden).

staticelf 9y ago
Wait what? She knew that was a possibility and that it is highly illegal and still she went through with it. I would say that is having intent if anything. I love my country but I think she should be punished a lot harder. Arkebusering på slottsgården. But since that will never happen, 12 years in jail is probably enough.
- solnyshok 9y ago
  for those who does not speak swedish (like me). google translate says "firing squad in the courtyard"
  - staticelf 9y ago
    That was a joke though. :) And slottsgården is more like "courtyard of the castle"
    - Symbiote 9y ago
      "Castle courtyard" or "palace courtyard". Probably palace, since that's the fancier building with less physical defences in the construction.
- duncan_bayne 9y ago
  Is that word from the same root as arquebus?
  - depressedpanda 9y ago
    Yes, correct: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkebusering#Etymologi https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkebusering#Etymologi Ultimately, both words come from low German "hakebusse".
- rhblake 9y ago
  But crucially not intent to commit treason. Gross negligence, sure (this she also admitted to). And I agree that she - and several others - ought to be punished much harder. But being naïve and incompetent (basically "yeah this is a problem but IBM can't provide people with security clearance yet, it takes too much time, and we're too far into the process and if we stop now many things - such as giving out driver's licenses and checking them - won't work for a while")... is, again, not treason. Just like involuntary manslaughter is not murder, and so on. Here's the definition by the way, 19 kap. 1 § brottsbalken: https://lagen.nu/1962:700#K19 https://lagen.nu/1962:700#K19
reitanqild 9y ago
Agree, your country is not a joke. It is a whole lot better than a lot of other places and I'd hope it would stay that way.
sgt101 9y ago
Being ignorant and incompetent and taking a job that your national security depends on that you can't do is treason in my book. I like Sweden, but the "on the whole, things in general" is a dangerous theme. Real problems and injustice exist in the margins and long tails, typically these can be fixed at manageable cost but not if they are ignored.
- rhblake 9y ago
  Not saying problems don't exist. Just trying to be realistic. Shouting about how everything has gone to hell and the country has become a joke can also be a dangerous theme feeding populist movements. Let's focus on what's actually broken.
serpix 9y ago
You have housing mortgages that do not need to be repaid and you have no car sales tax. Two incredibly good reasons to love Sweden. <3
yAnonymous 9y ago
>on the whole, things are in general pretty good, relative to most other countries in the world. 15 years ago, those relativizations wouldn't have been necessary. Sweden was a poster child of a good society and now it isn't. Many things in your country did deteriorate quickly over the last decade or so, no matter how you try to coat it. "At least we're still better than others" is a pretty sad statement by itself when you realize that you could be doing a lot better. My country is currently going down the same road and it's saddening to see that we didn't learn from your mistakes.
- rhblake 9y ago
  Are you sure you're not looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses? Not trying to coat anything, but I very well remember people talking about the country going down the drain 15-20 years ago too, following various incidents/attacks/scandals. For sure some things have deteriorated (and others improved). So it goes. What are some of these things you believe have "quickly deteriorated"? (Genuinely curious)
  - yAnonymous 9y ago
    https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/%C3%96vriga%20rapporter/Utsatta-omraden-sociala-risker-kollektiv-formaga-o-oonskade-handelser.pdf https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/%C3%96vriga... Your police have basically admitted that if worst comes to worst, they won't be able to uphold the law. 53 criminal zones, for a country like Sweden with relatively little police and military, are beyond managable. We see the same in Germany, but people choose to ignore it. There are more and more areas in cities where you can't make use of your democratic liberties without being subjected to violence, mostly connected to muslim inhabitants that think their religion is above the law. We have more police and resources to cope with it, but it's reaching its limit.
    - rhblake 9y ago
      The police identified 53 exposed zones, of which 15 are in the most serious category. It's indeed a big problem (hence this report and a lot of talk about it in Sweden). At the same time I think a lot of people from countries where you really have areas you avoid as a citizen (say, the US) often get the wrong impression when they read about so-called "no go" areas. There's no area on this list that I would avoid going to. And I've been to many, many of them, and have friends/family living in many of them (nearly all violence is between criminals). Again, not saying it's not a problem. It's a big problem. The police were given more resources in the latest gov't budget to deal with exactly this and will surely get more next year and it'll surely be an important topic in the 2018 election. We'll see how it goes. What are some other things you think have quickly deteriorated? I'm interested in this outsider perspective.

staticelf 9y ago

Wait what? She knew that was a possibility and that it is highly illegal and still she went through with it. I would say that is having intent if anything. I love my country but I think she should be punished a lot harder. Arkebusering på slottsgården. But since that will never happen, 12 years in jail is probably enough.

solnyshok 9y ago
for those who does not speak swedish (like me). google translate says "firing squad in the courtyard"
- staticelf 9y ago
  That was a joke though. :) And slottsgården is more like "courtyard of the castle"
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    "Castle courtyard" or "palace courtyard". Probably palace, since that's the fancier building with less physical defences in the construction.
duncan_bayne 9y ago
Is that word from the same root as arquebus?
- depressedpanda 9y ago
  Yes, correct: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkebusering#Etymologi https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkebusering#Etymologi Ultimately, both words come from low German "hakebusse".
rhblake 9y ago
But crucially not intent to commit treason. Gross negligence, sure (this she also admitted to). And I agree that she - and several others - ought to be punished much harder. But being naïve and incompetent (basically "yeah this is a problem but IBM can't provide people with security clearance yet, it takes too much time, and we're too far into the process and if we stop now many things - such as giving out driver's licenses and checking them - won't work for a while")... is, again, not treason. Just like involuntary manslaughter is not murder, and so on. Here's the definition by the way, 19 kap. 1 § brottsbalken: https://lagen.nu/1962:700#K19 https://lagen.nu/1962:700#K19

reitanqild 9y ago

Agree, your country is not a joke. It is a whole lot better than a lot of other places and I'd hope it would stay that way.

sgt101 9y ago

Being ignorant and incompetent and taking a job that your national security depends on that you can't do is treason in my book. I like Sweden, but the "on the whole, things in general" is a dangerous theme. Real problems and injustice exist in the margins and long tails, typically these can be fixed at manageable cost but not if they are ignored.

rhblake 9y ago
Not saying problems don't exist. Just trying to be realistic. Shouting about how everything has gone to hell and the country has become a joke can also be a dangerous theme feeding populist movements. Let's focus on what's actually broken.

serpix 9y ago

You have housing mortgages that do not need to be repaid and you have no car sales tax. Two incredibly good reasons to love Sweden. <3

yAnonymous 9y ago

>on the whole, things are in general pretty good, relative to most other countries in the world. 15 years ago, those relativizations wouldn't have been necessary. Sweden was a poster child of a good society and now it isn't. Many things in your country did deteriorate quickly over the last decade or so, no matter how you try to coat it. "At least we're still better than others" is a pretty sad statement by itself when you realize that you could be doing a lot better. My country is currently going down the same road and it's saddening to see that we didn't learn from your mistakes.

rhblake 9y ago
Are you sure you're not looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses? Not trying to coat anything, but I very well remember people talking about the country going down the drain 15-20 years ago too, following various incidents/attacks/scandals. For sure some things have deteriorated (and others improved). So it goes. What are some of these things you believe have "quickly deteriorated"? (Genuinely curious)
- yAnonymous 9y ago
  https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/%C3%96vriga%20rapporter/Utsatta-omraden-sociala-risker-kollektiv-formaga-o-oonskade-handelser.pdf https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/%C3%96vriga... Your police have basically admitted that if worst comes to worst, they won't be able to uphold the law. 53 criminal zones, for a country like Sweden with relatively little police and military, are beyond managable. We see the same in Germany, but people choose to ignore it. There are more and more areas in cities where you can't make use of your democratic liberties without being subjected to violence, mostly connected to muslim inhabitants that think their religion is above the law. We have more police and resources to cope with it, but it's reaching its limit.
  - rhblake 9y ago
    The police identified 53 exposed zones, of which 15 are in the most serious category. It's indeed a big problem (hence this report and a lot of talk about it in Sweden). At the same time I think a lot of people from countries where you really have areas you avoid as a citizen (say, the US) often get the wrong impression when they read about so-called "no go" areas. There's no area on this list that I would avoid going to. And I've been to many, many of them, and have friends/family living in many of them (nearly all violence is between criminals). Again, not saying it's not a problem. It's a big problem. The police were given more resources in the latest gov't budget to deal with exactly this and will surely get more next year and it'll surely be an important topic in the 2018 election. We'll see how it goes. What are some other things you think have quickly deteriorated? I'm interested in this outsider perspective.