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1) Arresting btc-e admin made all US customers to lose their balances on btc-e exchange. I highly doubt btc-e will come back online. 2) If you run online excha

1) Arresting btc-e admin made all US customers to lose their balances on btc-e exchange. I highly doubt btc-e will come back online. 2) If you run online exchanger and have a single US customer, then you have to register your operation in USA. I find it ridiculously stupid.

ccrush 9y ago
It gets better: while criminal charges for illegal banking practices are part of United States Code (title 18 covers crimes), the banking REGULATIONS that one must adhere to are codified at the State level. This means you must apply for 50 or so different licenses in order to legally do business as a Money Transfer Agent and Money Services Busimess in the United States. Although it seems overly burdensome and deliberately conceived to hinder practicing this line of business, the truth is that it creates an environment where consumers of the products and services offered by these businesses are better protected from fraud, as well as fostering an ecosystem of diverse business practices which leads to an advanced rate of innovation. It's a strange system, but it works very well. The downside is that it takes about $30M in cash to start one of these businesses just to fulfill regulatory requirements vis-à-vis the licensing, deposit, and audit requirements.
- bb611 9y ago
  You can cover >25% of the US population in just the top 3 states (CA, TX, NY). The system isn't that strange, almost every business in the US is primarily regulated by the states. What's strange is that most Americans don't realize this.
  - hippich 9y ago
    what even more strange is that whole world should follow quirky us system rules. put usa citizens in jail for not following usa rules, not foreign companies.
    - PeterisP 9y ago
      You don't have to follow USA rules unless you do business within USA. The key point is that doing fully digital business online (as opposed to selling physical goods online to people within your country) doesn't mean that no jurisdiction applies, it means that all of them do - if you do international trade with USA, then you have to be mindful of USA laws.
      - hippich 9y ago
        When I (located in USA) buy physical product from other country - it is my responsibility to import it properly. But somehow digital services put burden for following USA countries on foreign entities.
gst 9y ago
> 1) Arresting btc-e admin made all US customers to lose their balances on btc-e exchange. I highly doubt btc-e will come back online. I wouldn't be too sure about the US having control over the BTC-e wallets. Their Ethereum hot wallet[1] (with around $100M funds in it) has been untouched since the website has gone down. I'd assume that there's more than one person at BTC-e having access to those funds. Assuming the US government has access to the keys - why didn't they move the funds somewhere else in order to secure them? [1] https://etherscan.io/address/0x91337a300e0361bddb2e377dd4e88ccb7796663d https://etherscan.io/address/0x91337a300e0361bddb2e377dd4e88...
sgroppino 9y ago
Re #2, I wonder if the IRS will start asking US citizens to declare eCurrency accounts in FBAR anytime soon.
- mullen 9y ago
  Do you have to declare your gold or silver in foreign banks? If not, then I don't see why you would for eCurrency/eAssets. Assets are just assets no matter the form.
devrandomguy 9y ago
What if you just ban all Americans? /duck
- realusername 9y ago
  that's indeed what lots of banks are currently doing at the moment.
  - hellbanner 9y ago
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-foreign-banks-dont-want-u-s-clients-how-to-find-one-that-does/#4043a68d7704 https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-...
joosters 9y ago
Why would they lose their balances? Any decent company holds customer funds in a separate account from their own. I'm sure BTC-e cared enough about their customers that they did this! :)
wpietri 9y ago
> If you run online exchanger and have a single US customer, then you have to register your operation in USA. I find it ridiculously stupid. When you don't know much about something, it can often look stupid. This isn't new or complex, though. If you do business across a border, governments on either sides of the border may take an interest in the transaction. If you don't like that, don't do business across a border. "Online" isn't a special magic transdimensional place. It's just a web of connections between existing places.
- always_good 9y ago
  > When you don't know much about something, > it can often look stupid. This is just a rude remark. Do you think it's appropriate if I said "Heh, cute, wpietri, but many things are only defensible when you don't understand them." Also, "if you don't like it, don't do it!" is not a commentary on the issue.

ccrush 9y ago

It gets better: while criminal charges for illegal banking practices are part of United States Code (title 18 covers crimes), the banking REGULATIONS that one must adhere to are codified at the State level. This means you must apply for 50 or so different licenses in order to legally do business as a Money Transfer Agent and Money Services Busimess in the United States. Although it seems overly burdensome and deliberately conceived to hinder practicing this line of business, the truth is that it creates an environment where consumers of the products and services offered by these businesses are better protected from fraud, as well as fostering an ecosystem of diverse business practices which leads to an advanced rate of innovation. It's a strange system, but it works very well. The downside is that it takes about $30M in cash to start one of these businesses just to fulfill regulatory requirements vis-à-vis the licensing, deposit, and audit requirements.

bb611 9y ago
You can cover >25% of the US population in just the top 3 states (CA, TX, NY). The system isn't that strange, almost every business in the US is primarily regulated by the states. What's strange is that most Americans don't realize this.
- hippich 9y ago
  what even more strange is that whole world should follow quirky us system rules. put usa citizens in jail for not following usa rules, not foreign companies.
  - PeterisP 9y ago
    You don't have to follow USA rules unless you do business within USA. The key point is that doing fully digital business online (as opposed to selling physical goods online to people within your country) doesn't mean that no jurisdiction applies, it means that all of them do - if you do international trade with USA, then you have to be mindful of USA laws.
    - hippich 9y ago
      When I (located in USA) buy physical product from other country - it is my responsibility to import it properly. But somehow digital services put burden for following USA countries on foreign entities.

gst 9y ago

> 1) Arresting btc-e admin made all US customers to lose their balances on btc-e exchange. I highly doubt btc-e will come back online. I wouldn't be too sure about the US having control over the BTC-e wallets. Their Ethereum hot wallet[1] (with around $100M funds in it) has been untouched since the website has gone down. I'd assume that there's more than one person at BTC-e having access to those funds. Assuming the US government has access to the keys - why didn't they move the funds somewhere else in order to secure them? [1] https://etherscan.io/address/0x91337a300e0361bddb2e377dd4e88ccb7796663d https://etherscan.io/address/0x91337a300e0361bddb2e377dd4e88...

sgroppino 9y ago

Re #2, I wonder if the IRS will start asking US citizens to declare eCurrency accounts in FBAR anytime soon.

mullen 9y ago
Do you have to declare your gold or silver in foreign banks? If not, then I don't see why you would for eCurrency/eAssets. Assets are just assets no matter the form.

devrandomguy 9y ago

What if you just ban all Americans? /duck

realusername 9y ago
that's indeed what lots of banks are currently doing at the moment.
- hellbanner 9y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-foreign-banks-dont-want-u-s-clients-how-to-find-one-that-does/#4043a68d7704 https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-...

joosters 9y ago

Why would they lose their balances? Any decent company holds customer funds in a separate account from their own. I'm sure BTC-e cared enough about their customers that they did this! :)

wpietri 9y ago

> If you run online exchanger and have a single US customer, then you have to register your operation in USA. I find it ridiculously stupid. When you don't know much about something, it can often look stupid. This isn't new or complex, though. If you do business across a border, governments on either sides of the border may take an interest in the transaction. If you don't like that, don't do business across a border. "Online" isn't a special magic transdimensional place. It's just a web of connections between existing places.

always_good 9y ago
> When you don't know much about something, > it can often look stupid. This is just a rude remark. Do you think it's appropriate if I said "Heh, cute, wpietri, but many things are only defensible when you don't understand them." Also, "if you don't like it, don't do it!" is not a commentary on the issue.