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I still don't understand, the U.S. is charging a Russian with a white collar crime? The crime was committed outside the U.S., he didn't come to the U.S., the s
by lettergram 9y ago
I still don't understand, the U.S. is charging a Russian with a white collar crime?
The crime was committed outside the U.S., he didn't come to the U.S., the servers weren't in the U.S., Mt.Gox was based out of Japan, and Greek police arrested him.
I've seen this enough to know this is common, but what is going on with this world?
- ptenk 9y agoBTC-E didn't specifically bar US customer from trading there, so the indictment is on the grounds that their services were offered to US citizens, therefore liable to US Law.
- kloncks 9y agoiirc they rejected deposits from any American bank accounts and specifically said they won't work with German or US residents or citizens.
- ptenk 9y agoDon't know if this is recently, but as a US citizen, I've wired funds from an American bank successfully to BTC-e back in 2013.
- aarongolliver 9y agoWas about to respond with the same, 2013. This could have been before the US gov ruled one way or another about some specific rules for bitcoin.
- ryanlol 9y agoYeah, they said this and then made exceptions when users complained. If I recall correctly they started charging a slightly higher fee for US wires.
- 1stranger 9y ago> As for defendant BTC-e, the indictment alleges that, despite doing substantial business in the United States, BTC-e was not registered as a money services business with the U.S. Department of the Treasury, had no anti-money laundering process, no system for appropriate “know your customer” or “KYC” verification, and no anti-money laundering program as required by federal law. It's not just about Mt. Gox.
- justinjlynn 9y agoMLATs (mutual legal assistance treaties), extradition agreements, and powerful people with powerful relationships willing to go the extra distance to fuck someone's shit up.
- tgtweak 9y agoLet's not forget many mtgox customers were in the US.
- King-Aaron 9y agoTeam America: World Police
- dboreham 9y agoBecause all money transits through US banks? (to a first approximation)
- PeterisP 9y agoPretty much all dollars do; similarly to how a transfer of Euros (even if it's from Nigeria to China) is likely to go through EU.
- jonknee 9y agoIf you participate in crimes with US persons or entities you should stay in a country that does not extradite to the US...
- Pyxl101 9y agoInternational stateless crime needs to be prosecuted somewhere. He was indicted in the US because the US decided to go after him for crimes against US citizens, and other jurisdictions like Greece that have extradition warrants with the US decided to participate.
- kijin 9y agoAs soon as you touch USD, you're fair game for US authorities. It's like a shrink wrap license.
- vkou 9y ago> The crime was committed outside the U.S., he didn't come to the U.S., the servers weren't in the U.S., Mt.Gox was based out of Japan, and Greek police arrested him. No, but he either robbed, or laundered money for people who robbed US citizens (MTGOX customers.)
- ubernostrum 9y agoAs others have noted, the US didn't just make up jurisdiction here or declare that they can prosecute anything anywhere -- the charges include an allegation that he transferred stolen BTC to a US-based company. That creates a crime the US has jurisdiction to prosecute. It really is time for people to stop being gobsmacked at the idea that once you get entangled with an entity in a particular country, anything you do to or with that entity which violates the country's laws is fair game for them to extradite and prosecute you over. Shouting, "But I didn't do it in your country, I did it on the internet!" does not get people out of that. Also, given just how much global network infrastructure passes through the US, and the near-impossibility of productively cashing out of most criminal schemes without involving a US institution, people should stop being surprised that their clever attempts to commit the perfect stateless crime are neither clever nor stateless.
- Nursie 9y agoI still find it bizarre though - they may never have left their bedroom and suddenly we have a country on another continent getting involved.
- ubernostrum 9y agoIf someone in Greece had, while sitting in their bedroom in front of a laptop, hacked into a US bank and stolen money, would you be surprised if the US wanted to extradite and prosecute? The idea that "on the internet" is a magical stateless realm has only ever been an idea in the minds of naïve geeks. It has never been reality.
- Nursie 9y ago>> If someone in Greece had, while sitting in their bedroom in front of a laptop, hacked into a US bank and stolen money, would you be surprised if the US wanted to extradite and prosecute? I'm certainly not surprised the US wants to prosecute, as it seems to want to apply US law to the whole planet. But I am surprised the in some ways that the system allows it - that person never left Greece. What if the action was something illegal in the US but perfectly legal in the place they are sitting? I don't see that the crime necessarily takes place overseas when what they are really doing is sitting in a room, sending electronic signals from a machine. >> The idea that "on the internet" is a magical stateless realm has only ever been an idea in the minds of naïve geeks. It has never been reality. That's not what I'm saying, it's not a stateless realm, but actions taken were not taken in the USA.
- drexlspivey 9y agoHis arrest was coordinated by the FBI. I doubt he would be arrested at all if not for the FBI.
- strathmeyer 9y agoAsk your lawyer before committing too many international crimes.