6 ms·

Ruby on Rails is out: major coding bootcamp ditches it, due to waning interest

33 points by sagivo 9y ago

jmknoll 9y ago
"Watson specifically brought up the trend towards single-page web applications, which Node.js excels at, and Rails has yet to fully adopt." I'm considerably less bearish on Rails than this article. My go-to stack, especially for prototyping and rapid product development, is a Rails API and a React Frontend or React Native mobile client. There's a gem for every common problem that I'm going to run into, and this setup "just works" for 90% of what I need to do, which is some flavor of CRUD mobile and web apps. I feel like I've given Node an honest chance, and it definitely excels for real-time and high-performance apps, but for a basic web app, development feels slow and cumbersome. Is there something that I'm missing about Node? This article mentions it being great for SPAs. What makes Node better for an SPA than a Rails or Django API-only app? And if there is something that makes it better, are there frameworks to make Node development for basic CRUD apps more productive? I tried Sails for a bit, but found it kind of lacking.
- guu 9y ago
  The main benefits I can see for node are performance, ability to use the same language on front and back end, and possibly easier server side rendering for SPA applications. I don't think node comes out ahead in basic CRUD productivity as the rails ecosystem has many robust gems, established patterns, and documentation due to its maturity. They've recently added yarn and webpack integration as well so the core team seems well aware of the interest in SPA support. It's a little tough to gauge though, since rails is a close to all inclusive framework while node's frameworks (ex: express) tend to favor smaller pieces you combine together yourself. There are pros and cons either way.
danso 9y ago
> Replacing it is a Java course, which will emphasize the Spring application development framework. This can be used in a variety of contexts — from back-end services, to mobile and web applications. The cycle has completed. If there was anything that Ruby and RoR seemed like a salve to, it was Java (and perhaps C#/ASP) web frameworks.
- guu 9y ago
  Yes, ASP.NET MVC (Now ASP.NET Core) seems to be inspired by Rails a fair amount. Web Frameworks for both Java and C# have changed plenty over the years :)
- ChickeNES 9y ago
  Ick, I'd rather write a CGI backend in C than even touch Spring after having to use it for a consulting job.
  - indemnity 9y ago
    Spring, or Spring Boot? The latter I can live with...
antfarm 9y ago
I think JAVA is a good choice for a bootcamp, not because of any merits of its own, but because there are a lot more opportunities for beginner/intermediate level JAVA developers than there are for beginner/intermediate level Rails developers. Also, starting out with something as opinionated as Rails might harm you in the long term. JAVA, once you're over it, leaves you with less things to unlearn.
- ChickeNES 9y ago
  At least from what I've seen, RoR jobs outnumber Java jobs 3:1, unless you're looking at enterprise jobs, and, well, who wants to do that?
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Anyone that values the perks, vacation days, not having to answer emails/phone calls outside working hours, being able to work remotely without issues, getting software just by issuing a change request given project budgets.
anon4728 9y ago
Java, really? I'd rather gouge my eyes out and fill them with lava. Phoenix/Elixir/Erlang seem the natural choice. However those whom seek constant churn of language fashion don't care about utility and instead lionize popularity and novelty because the "grass is always greener" somewhere else with unicorns.

33 points by sagivo 9y ago

"Watson specifically brought up the trend towards single-page web applications, which Node.js excels at, and Rails has yet to fully adopt." I'm considerably less bearish on Rails than this article. My go-to stack, especially for prototyping and rapid product development, is a Rails API and a React Frontend or React Native mobile client. There's a gem for every common problem that I'm going to run into, and this setup "just works" for 90% of what I need to do, which is some flavor of CRUD mobile and web apps. I feel like I've given Node an honest chance, and it definitely excels for real-time and high-performance apps, but for a basic web app, development feels slow and cumbersome. Is there something that I'm missing about Node? This article mentions it being great for SPAs. What makes Node better for an SPA than a Rails or Django API-only app? And if there is something that makes it better, are there frameworks to make Node development for basic CRUD apps more productive? I tried Sails for a bit, but found it kind of lacking.

guu 9y ago
The main benefits I can see for node are performance, ability to use the same language on front and back end, and possibly easier server side rendering for SPA applications. I don't think node comes out ahead in basic CRUD productivity as the rails ecosystem has many robust gems, established patterns, and documentation due to its maturity. They've recently added yarn and webpack integration as well so the core team seems well aware of the interest in SPA support. It's a little tough to gauge though, since rails is a close to all inclusive framework while node's frameworks (ex: express) tend to favor smaller pieces you combine together yourself. There are pros and cons either way.

danso 9y ago

> Replacing it is a Java course, which will emphasize the Spring application development framework. This can be used in a variety of contexts — from back-end services, to mobile and web applications. The cycle has completed. If there was anything that Ruby and RoR seemed like a salve to, it was Java (and perhaps C#/ASP) web frameworks.

guu 9y ago
Yes, ASP.NET MVC (Now ASP.NET Core) seems to be inspired by Rails a fair amount. Web Frameworks for both Java and C# have changed plenty over the years :)
ChickeNES 9y ago
Ick, I'd rather write a CGI backend in C than even touch Spring after having to use it for a consulting job.
- indemnity 9y ago
  Spring, or Spring Boot? The latter I can live with...

antfarm 9y ago

I think JAVA is a good choice for a bootcamp, not because of any merits of its own, but because there are a lot more opportunities for beginner/intermediate level JAVA developers than there are for beginner/intermediate level Rails developers. Also, starting out with something as opinionated as Rails might harm you in the long term. JAVA, once you're over it, leaves you with less things to unlearn.

ChickeNES 9y ago
At least from what I've seen, RoR jobs outnumber Java jobs 3:1, unless you're looking at enterprise jobs, and, well, who wants to do that?
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Anyone that values the perks, vacation days, not having to answer emails/phone calls outside working hours, being able to work remotely without issues, getting software just by issuing a change request given project budgets.

anon4728 9y ago

Java, really? I'd rather gouge my eyes out and fill them with lava. Phoenix/Elixir/Erlang seem the natural choice. However those whom seek constant churn of language fashion don't care about utility and instead lionize popularity and novelty because the "grass is always greener" somewhere else with unicorns.