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> Science is about observation and deriving insights and rules from what you see Is mathematics a science? How about mathematics within a pre-defined discipli

> Science is about observation and deriving insights and rules from what you see Is mathematics a science? How about mathematics within a pre-defined discipline (e.g., doing novel work on group theory without inventing new axioms/structures)? Is that science? If you include mathematics in the sciences, which I think we should, then it's hard to see how video game development is non-scientific. (Besides which, the old trope about AI applies also to science. AI is AI until it becomes useful, then it's no longer AI and becomes some other branch of CS. All of engineering is science until it becomes useful, then it's no longer science but some branch of engineering.) > video games is largely more of an engineering problem that typical science/exploration. For one, video games are a great way to understand the strengths and limitations of simulation in science. And basically all fields of science these days have a corresponding field of computational science focused on using simulations to better understand the underlying science. So, it's important.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Is mathematics a science? No, it's purely analytical, not empirical. Mathematics provides essential tools used in science, but is not science.
- throwawayjava 9y ago
  Well then ekianjo's argument is even weaker, because "STEM" now clearly includes at least one thing that is unambiguously not "science"... (besides which, there are some obvious problems here -- not least of which is that many sciences rely on mathematical objects in probability and statistics to determine what is and is not true about observations. IMO modern science is inseparable from mathematics, and concrete mathematical objects form most of the philosophical substrate of modern scientific practice... so, if "science" is separated from "mathematics", that's only the case in some primitive high school understanding of how modern science is actually performed in reality. Maybe that's a problem with how science is performed in reality, but AFAICT it seems to be working pretty well in most areas with some notable huge exceptions.)
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    It would be kind of silly to say “Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math” if the latter three were subsets of the former rather than related (and sometimes overlapping) but distinct categories.
    - throwawayjava 9y ago
      Sure, I think we're agreeing on the question at hand.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Is mathematics a science? No, it's purely analytical, not empirical. Mathematics provides essential tools used in science, but is not science.

throwawayjava 9y ago
Well then ekianjo's argument is even weaker, because "STEM" now clearly includes at least one thing that is unambiguously not "science"... (besides which, there are some obvious problems here -- not least of which is that many sciences rely on mathematical objects in probability and statistics to determine what is and is not true about observations. IMO modern science is inseparable from mathematics, and concrete mathematical objects form most of the philosophical substrate of modern scientific practice... so, if "science" is separated from "mathematics", that's only the case in some primitive high school understanding of how modern science is actually performed in reality. Maybe that's a problem with how science is performed in reality, but AFAICT it seems to be working pretty well in most areas with some notable huge exceptions.)
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  It would be kind of silly to say “Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math” if the latter three were subsets of the former rather than related (and sometimes overlapping) but distinct categories.
  - throwawayjava 9y ago
    Sure, I think we're agreeing on the question at hand.