3 ms·

It's "bigotry" for a company founded on religious principles to be religious?

throwawayjava 9y ago
FWIW there's a huge difference between "sorry, but this is a safe space for religious people" and "if you're not a religious person then you can't be a good American". I don't think anyone has a problem with the former. But yes, the latter is... worthy of criticism, especially from engineers and scientists who pay attention to things like empirical counter-examples. Maybe not bigoted, but also clearly false.
leephillips 9y ago
In case this is a serious question, I'll answer you: no, of course not. But do you feel that the import of the statement I quoted is merely that the BSA is a religious organization?
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  >I don't know any scientists or engineers who would be willing to sign on to this kind of bigotry I guess you don't know many engineers, or you only know software engineers in Silicon Valley or something. Engineers, in my experience, and especially the non-software kind, tend to be extremely religious. In fact, studies have found that many middle eastern terrorists come from engineering backgrounds. The engineers I've worked with have been overwhelmingly conservative, and frequently religious. (Those that weren't conservative were usually libertarian.) Yeah, your typical Millennial programmer in the Bay Area probably isn't religious at all, but hang around some 40+ mechanical or electrical engineers and you'll see an entirely different crowd, with probably a lot of Trump supporters.
  - leephillips 9y ago
    We've probably encountered a different engineering demographic. But it's not just a question of being religious. Would the religious engineers of your acquaintance say that unbelievers are incapable of being the best kind of citizens, by virtue of their lack of belief in the supernatural? That's what the Boy Scouts say.
    - gorkonsine 9y ago
      I haven't asked any that particular question, but I see no reason to think that many religious people, engineers or not, would answer that they believe that unbelievers are incapable of being the best kind of citizens. That's a pretty normal kind of belief for religious Americans really.
      - leephillips 9y ago
        I suppose you're right, that this kind of bigotry is commonly considered acceptable among believers. I know more scientists well than engineers. Even the ones who are Christians would be appalled by the Boy Scout Principle.

FWIW there's a huge difference between "sorry, but this is a safe space for religious people" and "if you're not a religious person then you can't be a good American". I don't think anyone has a problem with the former. But yes, the latter is... worthy of criticism, especially from engineers and scientists who pay attention to things like empirical counter-examples. Maybe not bigoted, but also clearly false.

leephillips 9y ago

In case this is a serious question, I'll answer you: no, of course not. But do you feel that the import of the statement I quoted is merely that the BSA is a religious organization?

gorkonsine 9y ago
>I don't know any scientists or engineers who would be willing to sign on to this kind of bigotry I guess you don't know many engineers, or you only know software engineers in Silicon Valley or something. Engineers, in my experience, and especially the non-software kind, tend to be extremely religious. In fact, studies have found that many middle eastern terrorists come from engineering backgrounds. The engineers I've worked with have been overwhelmingly conservative, and frequently religious. (Those that weren't conservative were usually libertarian.) Yeah, your typical Millennial programmer in the Bay Area probably isn't religious at all, but hang around some 40+ mechanical or electrical engineers and you'll see an entirely different crowd, with probably a lot of Trump supporters.
- leephillips 9y ago
  We've probably encountered a different engineering demographic. But it's not just a question of being religious. Would the religious engineers of your acquaintance say that unbelievers are incapable of being the best kind of citizens, by virtue of their lack of belief in the supernatural? That's what the Boy Scouts say.
  - gorkonsine 9y ago
    I haven't asked any that particular question, but I see no reason to think that many religious people, engineers or not, would answer that they believe that unbelievers are incapable of being the best kind of citizens. That's a pretty normal kind of belief for religious Americans really.
    - leephillips 9y ago
      I suppose you're right, that this kind of bigotry is commonly considered acceptable among believers. I know more scientists well than engineers. Even the ones who are Christians would be appalled by the Boy Scout Principle.