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I'll stick with Tcl if I'm going to use a glue language that has green thread like functionality and an event loop. early choices were tcl or perl: went Tcl and

I'll stick with Tcl if I'm going to use a glue language that has green thread like functionality and an event loop. early choices were tcl or perl: went Tcl and never looked back. As far as web development in perl..well have fun convincing everyone on the node.js and python bandwagons to move 'back' to perl. Glad it works for you.

totalperspectiv 9y ago
I hadn't heard of Tcl before but it looks awesome! What do you find its ideal use cases to be?
- forinti 9y ago
  I use Tcl/Tk from time to time and it always seems the easy choice when I need a simple GUI and also need to make an executable for Windows (which is trivial with Freewrap). Some of the things I've written are: a simple standby order input app, a Forms/Reports compiler (sends file to server, waits for response and informs user), and a Ghostscript wrapper for merging lots of PDFs into one file.
  - totalperspectiv 9y ago
    Awesome! I'm definitely going to be keeping it in mind as little projects come up that could use a GUI.
- williadc 9y ago
  TCL is really great for throwing syntax errors at runtime, having no real data structures, and an inconsistent API!
  - logicchains 9y ago
    Better than throwing syntax errors at compile time; saves the programmer time. By the time errors happen, it's the customer's problem instead.
- le-mark 9y ago
  TCL is pretty old school and doesn't get a lot of attention nowadays. The main use I'm aware of is in BigIP F5 config files. There are some really interesting things about it though, for example how control flow constructs (if/else, while) are implemented as commands, using built in uplevel and upvar[1] commands to control the scope of the currently executing code. Some people say it's lisp-like, that's one of the things they mean. TCL has an interesting history, it's creator is also known for Ousthout's Dichotomy[2] which is useful when disambiguating between "scripting" and "other" languages (an argument that occurs frequently on the internet). Antirez has written about TCL, if you're an admirer of him or his work (redis) you may find his take on it interesting[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tcl#Uplevel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tcl#Uplevel [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousterhout%27s_dichotomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousterhout%27s_dichotomy [3] http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html
  - cchase88 9y ago
    I wrote a blog post where I show how to define "until" using Uplevel: http://christopherchase.cc/posts/tcl-until.html http://christopherchase.cc/posts/tcl-until.html
  - fundabulousrIII 9y ago
    upvar and uplevel are also the only parts of the language that I do not use in production scripting. They have their place. It is not in end user space.
- sigzero 9y ago
  If I move out of shell for scripting, I go to Tcl. I also write little utilities with Tcl/Tk to do repetitive tasks that I do often.
- fusiongyro 9y ago
  Tcl is pretty old. A lot of the territory it covered well is now better covered by other things. One of its great strengths was being extensible. It's pretty easy to bake some functionality into Tcl and provide a new shell with it. This is what expect (http://expect.sourceforge.net/ http://expect.sourceforge.net/) is, for instance. Another early advantage of Tcl was Tk, which provided Tcl extended with GUI stuff. Tk was cross-platform and established very early on, so if you wanted to provide one GUI for Unix, Mac and Windows, it was a good choice. It was very ugly for a long time; I hear it has gotten better lately but I don't know that myself. Tk is still built-in to Python as Tkinter. This is another specialty shell provided by Tcl, wish ("window shell"). Tcl was supposed to be good for embedding. The original author was supposedly using it for robotics. I haven't seen much energy there; I think Tcl's lunch probably got eaten by Lua some time ago. Lua is smaller, more like a modern programming language and easier to embed, but Tcl is more like shell scripting, so I guess there might be style reasons why you might prefer Tcl despite Lua's advantages. Tcl is easy to disparage, but there's a lot of misinformation out there. At one time, it really only had one data type (strings). Quotation is a big topic in Tcl, but like Lisp, you can supply your own control structures. Everything is a command and commands have a lot of freedom about how to interpret their arguments. It is rather Lispy, unlike Lua. Tcl does have modern data structures and it does pretty snazzy things behind the scenes to optimize access to them while making things still seem to be strings for the cases where that matters. Tcl is still around in some surprising places. I wouldn't expect there being a lot of new development starting with Tcl but it's kind of a fun language to know about. I got the newest edition of the book and it's a neat book, but I confess I haven't found ideal use cases for it.
  - fundabulousrIII 9y ago
    Old is relative. There is a good core dev community and recent development is promising. It's interesting you mention Lua because that is a language I picked up when looking to move from Tcl at some point in the last 8 years. I decided rather quickly against that. The reason is the swig bindings for Tcl are sufficient to generate decent package cores for just about anything I care to extend and I can optimize later.
    - 9y ago
sigzero 9y ago
Yup, Tcl is a really nice little language.
ericfrederich 9y ago
I've done some neat things with Tcl and Python. Python comes with a C module for interacting with an embedded Tcl interpreter (Meaning Tcl and Python interpreters are running within the same process). It's mainly used for GUI programming from Python but the interface is generic enough to be able to write some nice iterop code. For example, I have a library that seamlessly lets you use Python classes and objects from Tcl and vice versa. From there we merged the Tcl and Qt event loops so that we could have PyQt widgets playing nicely with Tcl/Tk widgets. This was all part of an effort to migrate from a Tcl/Tk codebase to Python/PyQt. I wish I could share the code because it's kind of neat. Only around 600 lines of Python code to do all that magic.
anonacct37 9y ago
TCL is a fun language, I got my start in web development using OpenACS on aolserver with embedded TCL. I don't want to go back.

totalperspectiv 9y ago

I hadn't heard of Tcl before but it looks awesome! What do you find its ideal use cases to be?

forinti 9y ago
I use Tcl/Tk from time to time and it always seems the easy choice when I need a simple GUI and also need to make an executable for Windows (which is trivial with Freewrap). Some of the things I've written are: a simple standby order input app, a Forms/Reports compiler (sends file to server, waits for response and informs user), and a Ghostscript wrapper for merging lots of PDFs into one file.
- totalperspectiv 9y ago
  Awesome! I'm definitely going to be keeping it in mind as little projects come up that could use a GUI.
williadc 9y ago
TCL is really great for throwing syntax errors at runtime, having no real data structures, and an inconsistent API!
- logicchains 9y ago
  Better than throwing syntax errors at compile time; saves the programmer time. By the time errors happen, it's the customer's problem instead.
le-mark 9y ago
TCL is pretty old school and doesn't get a lot of attention nowadays. The main use I'm aware of is in BigIP F5 config files. There are some really interesting things about it though, for example how control flow constructs (if/else, while) are implemented as commands, using built in uplevel and upvar[1] commands to control the scope of the currently executing code. Some people say it's lisp-like, that's one of the things they mean. TCL has an interesting history, it's creator is also known for Ousthout's Dichotomy[2] which is useful when disambiguating between "scripting" and "other" languages (an argument that occurs frequently on the internet). Antirez has written about TCL, if you're an admirer of him or his work (redis) you may find his take on it interesting[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tcl#Uplevel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tcl#Uplevel [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousterhout%27s_dichotomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousterhout%27s_dichotomy [3] http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html
- cchase88 9y ago
  I wrote a blog post where I show how to define "until" using Uplevel: http://christopherchase.cc/posts/tcl-until.html http://christopherchase.cc/posts/tcl-until.html
- fundabulousrIII 9y ago
  upvar and uplevel are also the only parts of the language that I do not use in production scripting. They have their place. It is not in end user space.
sigzero 9y ago
If I move out of shell for scripting, I go to Tcl. I also write little utilities with Tcl/Tk to do repetitive tasks that I do often.
fusiongyro 9y ago
Tcl is pretty old. A lot of the territory it covered well is now better covered by other things. One of its great strengths was being extensible. It's pretty easy to bake some functionality into Tcl and provide a new shell with it. This is what expect (http://expect.sourceforge.net/ http://expect.sourceforge.net/) is, for instance. Another early advantage of Tcl was Tk, which provided Tcl extended with GUI stuff. Tk was cross-platform and established very early on, so if you wanted to provide one GUI for Unix, Mac and Windows, it was a good choice. It was very ugly for a long time; I hear it has gotten better lately but I don't know that myself. Tk is still built-in to Python as Tkinter. This is another specialty shell provided by Tcl, wish ("window shell"). Tcl was supposed to be good for embedding. The original author was supposedly using it for robotics. I haven't seen much energy there; I think Tcl's lunch probably got eaten by Lua some time ago. Lua is smaller, more like a modern programming language and easier to embed, but Tcl is more like shell scripting, so I guess there might be style reasons why you might prefer Tcl despite Lua's advantages. Tcl is easy to disparage, but there's a lot of misinformation out there. At one time, it really only had one data type (strings). Quotation is a big topic in Tcl, but like Lisp, you can supply your own control structures. Everything is a command and commands have a lot of freedom about how to interpret their arguments. It is rather Lispy, unlike Lua. Tcl does have modern data structures and it does pretty snazzy things behind the scenes to optimize access to them while making things still seem to be strings for the cases where that matters. Tcl is still around in some surprising places. I wouldn't expect there being a lot of new development starting with Tcl but it's kind of a fun language to know about. I got the newest edition of the book and it's a neat book, but I confess I haven't found ideal use cases for it.
- fundabulousrIII 9y ago
  Old is relative. There is a good core dev community and recent development is promising. It's interesting you mention Lua because that is a language I picked up when looking to move from Tcl at some point in the last 8 years. I decided rather quickly against that. The reason is the swig bindings for Tcl are sufficient to generate decent package cores for just about anything I care to extend and I can optimize later.
  - 9y ago

sigzero 9y ago

Yup, Tcl is a really nice little language.

ericfrederich 9y ago

I've done some neat things with Tcl and Python. Python comes with a C module for interacting with an embedded Tcl interpreter (Meaning Tcl and Python interpreters are running within the same process). It's mainly used for GUI programming from Python but the interface is generic enough to be able to write some nice iterop code. For example, I have a library that seamlessly lets you use Python classes and objects from Tcl and vice versa. From there we merged the Tcl and Qt event loops so that we could have PyQt widgets playing nicely with Tcl/Tk widgets. This was all part of an effort to migrate from a Tcl/Tk codebase to Python/PyQt. I wish I could share the code because it's kind of neat. Only around 600 lines of Python code to do all that magic.

anonacct37 9y ago

TCL is a fun language, I got my start in web development using OpenACS on aolserver with embedded TCL. I don't want to go back.