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Mostly because women often get pulled into meetings with their bosses/HR and told to wear makeup if they don't. Seriously. Even if they don't, they get accused

Mostly because women often get pulled into meetings with their bosses/HR and told to wear makeup if they don't. Seriously. Even if they don't, they get accused by work colleagues of not looking good enough, and clients comment on it. This isn't something women do to be manipulative - it's something that's enforced as part of a woman's dress code by the company. Or, in other words, if you think makeup is intended to replicate visual signs of arousal... then this is the culture you work in forcing women to appear sexually aroused in workplace environments. Which is, of course, also something that feminists have talked about for decades.

belorn 9y ago
From what I have read, tools to improve ones appearance (makeup, manicures, trendy clothes) is primarily about social status and inter-sex pecking order. Men do the same thing, but instead of makeup it is different signal of having wealth (clocks, gadgets, cars). I recall reading that if a woman has no other female coworkers, the trend is a decrease use of such signals. With no one to compete with then there is no need to spend energy on it.
Chris2048 9y ago
Then campaign against it. Until then, "corporate expectation" is a convenient excuse, despite the fact that many corporations will fold in the face of any social pressure. Like how "men" are claimed to be responsible for pressuring women into unrealistic body images, despite the fashion industry being run, and chosen by women.
- vertex-four 9y ago
  We have been for decades? Like, this was a part of second-wave feminism half a decade ago. It's hardly a new idea.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    There are lots of ideas in the world, I'm talking about actual action. Various celebs will back a "ban bossy" campaign, but millions of women are forced to feign sexual availability against their wishes, and barely any motivation to protests it?
    - vertex-four 9y ago
      There was, again, actual action. There is still actual action. It didn't, and still doesn't, get anywhere. In fact, it developed quite directly into the idea of the "ugly feminist", a stereotype that exists to this day. Funny that. Fact of the matter is, if you employ women who don't wear makeup, your clients and customers will think less of your business. You'll lose money and some positivity associated with your brand. Your managers will think less of your female workers - so will their coworkers, no matter the official policy. This isn't the sort of thing that gets changed by a line in a policy document - this is the sort of thing that needs widespread social change.
      - Chris2048 9y ago
        "actual action" is not a binary thing. You can gauge motivation by how much action there is, relative to the notional "seriousness" of the subject. On that basis, the idea "women are socially pressured into wearing make-up" falls short. Women, themselves, are rejecting the idea. > your clients and customers will think less of your business This isn't all jobs, though. A doctor, or back-end dev shouldn't feel any pressure to wear lipstick. If you want to direct criticism at those roles/instances where there is a problem, and maybe suggest solutions, I'm fine with that, but broad strokes don't do much help. Incidentally, I see fewer women in my own country wear as much make-up as those in America appears to do. I mentioned "doctor" specifically because I am surprised how much american doctor wear. As a further anecdote, whenever an american version of a European series is remade, the american actors are usually more attractive..

belorn 9y ago

From what I have read, tools to improve ones appearance (makeup, manicures, trendy clothes) is primarily about social status and inter-sex pecking order. Men do the same thing, but instead of makeup it is different signal of having wealth (clocks, gadgets, cars). I recall reading that if a woman has no other female coworkers, the trend is a decrease use of such signals. With no one to compete with then there is no need to spend energy on it.

Chris2048 9y ago

Then campaign against it. Until then, "corporate expectation" is a convenient excuse, despite the fact that many corporations will fold in the face of any social pressure. Like how "men" are claimed to be responsible for pressuring women into unrealistic body images, despite the fashion industry being run, and chosen by women.

vertex-four 9y ago
We have been for decades? Like, this was a part of second-wave feminism half a decade ago. It's hardly a new idea.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  There are lots of ideas in the world, I'm talking about actual action. Various celebs will back a "ban bossy" campaign, but millions of women are forced to feign sexual availability against their wishes, and barely any motivation to protests it?
  - vertex-four 9y ago
    There was, again, actual action. There is still actual action. It didn't, and still doesn't, get anywhere. In fact, it developed quite directly into the idea of the "ugly feminist", a stereotype that exists to this day. Funny that. Fact of the matter is, if you employ women who don't wear makeup, your clients and customers will think less of your business. You'll lose money and some positivity associated with your brand. Your managers will think less of your female workers - so will their coworkers, no matter the official policy. This isn't the sort of thing that gets changed by a line in a policy document - this is the sort of thing that needs widespread social change.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      "actual action" is not a binary thing. You can gauge motivation by how much action there is, relative to the notional "seriousness" of the subject. On that basis, the idea "women are socially pressured into wearing make-up" falls short. Women, themselves, are rejecting the idea. > your clients and customers will think less of your business This isn't all jobs, though. A doctor, or back-end dev shouldn't feel any pressure to wear lipstick. If you want to direct criticism at those roles/instances where there is a problem, and maybe suggest solutions, I'm fine with that, but broad strokes don't do much help. Incidentally, I see fewer women in my own country wear as much make-up as those in America appears to do. I mentioned "doctor" specifically because I am surprised how much american doctor wear. As a further anecdote, whenever an american version of a European series is remade, the american actors are usually more attractive..