5 ms·

If I had to work a shit job like grocery store clerk, I'd much prefer an ineffectual dolt of a boss telling me to smile than I would a German realist boss telli

If I had to work a shit job like grocery store clerk, I'd much prefer an ineffectual dolt of a boss telling me to smile than I would a German realist boss telling me a smile isn't a requirement of my employment.

threatofrain 9y ago
Or you'll have an American realist Walmart boss telling you to "cheer" up. I see it as unvalued emotional labor, and degrading to those who do it as they are non-negotiably expected to do it. Some people are into this, and some aren't -- but if you are poor and working retail, then you must smile and sometimes sing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkQJm_UGM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkQJm_UGM4
- mrkrabo 9y ago
  Haha, that video is pathetic. https://youtu.be/Z8zNsUTWsOc https://youtu.be/Z8zNsUTWsOc
- smsm42 9y ago
  I have hard time to see how being nice to people is "degrading". Is it somehow assumed that only assholes are real decent people and anyone who is nice to the clients is automatically degrading themselves? Yes, I get it - working as a clerk in a store like Walmart is not the most luxurious job in the world. But I, as a client, is not at fault that the clerk is not a billionaire hedge fund manager (neither am I btw). On the contrary, the money that I bring in are partially paying his - admittedly, far from luxurious, but still nonzero - salary. He is not forced to work this job, he could leave at any moment (he'd have to give up the salary of course). So is it really too much to expect some nice disposition towards customers which pay your living? I really don't understand how it's unreasonable and "degrading" to expect that. Singing maybe going too far (OTOH, the video looks like a dreaded "teambuilding exercise", that's the whole other story), but a nice smile?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - carapace 9y ago
    Being nice to people isn't degrading (in fact, it's uplifting.) Being required to pretend to be nice or else is degrading.
    - threatofrain 9y ago
      Also, you can be nice to people without pretending to feel happy all the time, such as by smiling or singing. Being nice could mean efficiently executing their duties. I'm not sure why talking about emotional labor, smiling and singing, suddenly brought on doubts about decency, niceness, and assholeness in the following reply. I see that as very stressful expectations to have for somebody. Smiling is a communication of internal feelings. It puts pressure on me as the customer as well when I know my mere presence is an on-button for an emotional act for people. How draining for both parties.
  - shostack 9y ago
    >"He is not forced to work this job, he could leave at any moment (he'd have to give up the salary of course)." A couple points worth mentioning: 1. For most retail clerks, the choice to leave is often "stay in a shitty job I hate" vs. "become homeless and starve (and potentially my family as well) because there is a lack of other jobs, high competition for them, and I live paycheck-to-paycheck because the jobs I can get pay minimum wage with no benefits." 2. It might be different overseas, but in the US at least the vast majority of retail clerks are paid hourly at the minimum wage. In fact, many retail employers do their best to have managers play games with people's scheduled hours to keep them under the amount that triggers benefits and overtime. So in many (dare I say most?) cases, yes, it is too much to expect some nice disposition by default. That said, I would hope most people, when treated nicely by customers with realistic expectations, would respond in-kind.
- jancsika 9y ago
  > Or you'll have an American realist Walmart boss telling you to "cheer" up. I don't think that video exemplifies the American stereotype you think it does: 1. One of the people recording this was singing sarcastically-- purposefully off key, and in a tone that clearly signals to other Americans that he is mocking the thing he is being made to do. He also posted it on Youtube to criticize Walmart. 2. Most of the people aren't really participating. Look at that person who is literally an aisle away from the action! There's also a group just watching the person who isn't in uniform make yet another recording. 3. Do you really think the guy forced to play the lead Walmart cheerleader to that un-licensed Queen ripoff is a realist? Do you think he feels anything but shame and embarrassment that his most famous moment is a pathetic (and ineffectual) attempt to wring a tiny bit more productivity out of his no-benefits part-time staff? 4. Have you ever been to a Walmart? The cashiers at Walmart don't smile, and rarely look up at you. Compare to: "Guten Morgen. Your corporate overlords have seen fit to allow you to be the only unionized Walmart in the world for another day. So give thanks, and continue not smiling as that would otherwise betray a transcendental lie. That's the German Walmart Guarantee!" edit: forgot that German nouns are capitalized
  - threatofrain 9y ago
    I don't think this is necessarily American, but more indicative of the relationship between employer and employee at a low SES level. My point was to show that militaristic German vs. relaxed "dolt" American wasn't the right framing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKd2unIg5Rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKd2unIg5Rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njp7ZPeUy2w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njp7ZPeUy2w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7qF2eXkgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7qF2eXkgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53AAezi_R8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53AAezi_R8U The first video isn't in English, and is indicative of reach.

threatofrain 9y ago

Or you'll have an American realist Walmart boss telling you to "cheer" up. I see it as unvalued emotional labor, and degrading to those who do it as they are non-negotiably expected to do it. Some people are into this, and some aren't -- but if you are poor and working retail, then you must smile and sometimes sing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkQJm_UGM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkQJm_UGM4

mrkrabo 9y ago
Haha, that video is pathetic. https://youtu.be/Z8zNsUTWsOc https://youtu.be/Z8zNsUTWsOc
smsm42 9y ago
I have hard time to see how being nice to people is "degrading". Is it somehow assumed that only assholes are real decent people and anyone who is nice to the clients is automatically degrading themselves? Yes, I get it - working as a clerk in a store like Walmart is not the most luxurious job in the world. But I, as a client, is not at fault that the clerk is not a billionaire hedge fund manager (neither am I btw). On the contrary, the money that I bring in are partially paying his - admittedly, far from luxurious, but still nonzero - salary. He is not forced to work this job, he could leave at any moment (he'd have to give up the salary of course). So is it really too much to expect some nice disposition towards customers which pay your living? I really don't understand how it's unreasonable and "degrading" to expect that. Singing maybe going too far (OTOH, the video looks like a dreaded "teambuilding exercise", that's the whole other story), but a nice smile?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- carapace 9y ago
  Being nice to people isn't degrading (in fact, it's uplifting.) Being required to pretend to be nice or else is degrading.
  - threatofrain 9y ago
    Also, you can be nice to people without pretending to feel happy all the time, such as by smiling or singing. Being nice could mean efficiently executing their duties. I'm not sure why talking about emotional labor, smiling and singing, suddenly brought on doubts about decency, niceness, and assholeness in the following reply. I see that as very stressful expectations to have for somebody. Smiling is a communication of internal feelings. It puts pressure on me as the customer as well when I know my mere presence is an on-button for an emotional act for people. How draining for both parties.
- shostack 9y ago
  >"He is not forced to work this job, he could leave at any moment (he'd have to give up the salary of course)." A couple points worth mentioning: 1. For most retail clerks, the choice to leave is often "stay in a shitty job I hate" vs. "become homeless and starve (and potentially my family as well) because there is a lack of other jobs, high competition for them, and I live paycheck-to-paycheck because the jobs I can get pay minimum wage with no benefits." 2. It might be different overseas, but in the US at least the vast majority of retail clerks are paid hourly at the minimum wage. In fact, many retail employers do their best to have managers play games with people's scheduled hours to keep them under the amount that triggers benefits and overtime. So in many (dare I say most?) cases, yes, it is too much to expect some nice disposition by default. That said, I would hope most people, when treated nicely by customers with realistic expectations, would respond in-kind.
jancsika 9y ago
> Or you'll have an American realist Walmart boss telling you to "cheer" up. I don't think that video exemplifies the American stereotype you think it does: 1. One of the people recording this was singing sarcastically-- purposefully off key, and in a tone that clearly signals to other Americans that he is mocking the thing he is being made to do. He also posted it on Youtube to criticize Walmart. 2. Most of the people aren't really participating. Look at that person who is literally an aisle away from the action! There's also a group just watching the person who isn't in uniform make yet another recording. 3. Do you really think the guy forced to play the lead Walmart cheerleader to that un-licensed Queen ripoff is a realist? Do you think he feels anything but shame and embarrassment that his most famous moment is a pathetic (and ineffectual) attempt to wring a tiny bit more productivity out of his no-benefits part-time staff? 4. Have you ever been to a Walmart? The cashiers at Walmart don't smile, and rarely look up at you. Compare to: "Guten Morgen. Your corporate overlords have seen fit to allow you to be the only unionized Walmart in the world for another day. So give thanks, and continue not smiling as that would otherwise betray a transcendental lie. That's the German Walmart Guarantee!" edit: forgot that German nouns are capitalized
- threatofrain 9y ago
  I don't think this is necessarily American, but more indicative of the relationship between employer and employee at a low SES level. My point was to show that militaristic German vs. relaxed "dolt" American wasn't the right framing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKd2unIg5Rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKd2unIg5Rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njp7ZPeUy2w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njp7ZPeUy2w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7qF2eXkgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7qF2eXkgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53AAezi_R8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53AAezi_R8U The first video isn't in English, and is indicative of reach.