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Girl Scouts Embraces STEM and Adds New Badges
- JadeNB 9y agoI'm a math educator. Although of course I want to see more women in STEM, I've never been directly involved in the appropriate outreach. With that lack of qualification firmly established, I hope I may say that this is a wonderful thing. Anything that successfully shows STEM can be a "girlish" activity (literally in the sense of something girls do) is to be applauded; and hopefully this effort, in a pre-existing mentorship structure, will have a knock-on effect wherein older mentors (I don't know what they're called in the Girl Scouts) can serve as direct examples (of women in STEM) and as positive role models.
- Waterluvian 9y agoI love it. Let's go a step further: make one set of boy and girl scout badges from the union of both sets.
- ajross 9y agoEntirely different organizations with different purposes and goals.
- tnecniv 9y agoInterestingly, only the US and Japan have gendered scouting organizations. (Might be wrong on this, it's been at least a decade since I learned that)
- geowwy 9y agoAustralia does too. http://girlguides.org.au/ http://girlguides.org.au/
- bruce_one 9y agoIn Australia, Girl Guides is a female only organisation whilst Scouts allows any gender.
- microcolonel 9y ago> Interestingly, only the US and Japan have gendered scouting organizations. > (Might be wrong on this, it's been at least a decade since I learned that) And Canada. UK has partially-gendered scouting, but the boyscout organization becomes co-ed after a certain age, the girl side can remain separate indefinitely. I think it's somewhat separated in México as well, they have more different associations though, AFAIK. I think most countries which have scouting organizations have a gender separation.
- bdamm 9y agoIt is not true that the Scouts in Canada are male-only. I have nieces who are proud and enthusiastic Scouts in Canada. (No idea about the Girl Guides.)
- microcolonel 9y agoAhh, looks like you're right. Seems nobody ever tries to get boys into the girl guides, frankly it seems a bit unfair that there is basically nowhere boys can be boys.
- thomasahle 9y agoThe individual scout groups and leaders have plenty of opportunity for making gender separation in tasks, patrols or troops. I don't really see that enforcing separation from the organisation level is very useful.
- mattrad 9y agoUK Scouting is fully non-gendered for all ages; see Scouting for All and the Equal Opportunities Policy: http://scouts.org.uk/about-us/key-policies/equal-opportunities-policy/ http://scouts.org.uk/about-us/key-policies/equal-opportuniti.... UK Guiding allows girls and young women, but fully supports gender self-identification: https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policies/girlguiding-policies/equality-and-diversity-policy/transgender-gender-reassignment/ https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policie.... Scouting and Guiding in the UK are refreshingly progressive organisations. Source: current Scout leader.
- xor1 9y agoThey don't need to be.
- B-Con 9y agoThey kind of do. They are very different organizations, they just happen (not by coincidence, of course) to serve different genders. But it's the organizational structure and goals that's of primary interest. That really can't be merged. It is more likely that both would expand to include all kids rather than they merge.
- johan_larson 9y agoDifferent organizations, yes. But different in purpose? It seems to me both exist to teach outdoorsy skills and good citizenship.
- throwawayjava 9y agoNoticeably, neither organization mentions "outdoorsy skills" in its vision. Both discuss good citizenship, but exactly what that means is only stated in very subjective terms. And once you go past the platitudes, all the subjective details start dominating. If you read through the BSA oath and law, you'll find a lot of subjective words. "Loyal" (to who?). Friendly (to who?). Obedient (to what law/rules?). Brave (in the face of which adversities?). Clean (holy shit is this a loaded word in Christendom... official BSA position as recent as 2012 was that homosexuality is "unclean" -- a position that IMO completely undermines the entire oath by opening every entirely subjective word up to politically motivated interpretation). "mentally awake and morally straight" are obviously totally subjective. GSA uses similar words, but do they mean the same thing? I don't think so. As national organizations, I think the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are trying to support/develop/foster fundamentally different types of people. These national politics are often, but not always, mirrored in local troops. FWIW, I do agree that scouting should primarily focus on outdoors activities and irrefutable moral goods mostly disconnected from the culture wars (don't lie/cheat/steal as a general rule; understand how your government works; be a helpful force in your community). And it does seem like things are slowly moving that way, as national organizations realize it's not in their best interest to inject themselves into culture wars. And a lot of troops have always managed to do exactly that. But others (e.g., my bsa troop as a child) spend a lot of time on religious and social indoctrination. So, BSA and GSA really are different organizations with different goals, because all the words their missions share are totally subjective, and each organization interprets those subjective words differently. At least at the national level. And those differences are mirrored in many localities.
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- debacle 9y agoThis is probably the most positive "more girls should do STEM" initiative I've encountered yet. > Financial Literacy badges prepare girls for a financially sound future. This seems exceptionally progressive.
- SilasX 9y agoHm, but the Boy Scouts long had Personal Finance merit badge (since changed to Personal Management) as an Eagle Scout prerequisite, which covers the same things though, right? https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Personal_Management https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Personal_Management
- fastball 9y agoThe point of this discussion is promoting things for girls/women, so not really sure why you think Boy Scout stuff is relevant?
- palunon 9y agoMaybe because people are saying that some things are out of context/scope for girl scouts (like, for example, this badge) in sibling threads. Showing a similar badge does exist in the boy scouts since a long time is relevant, because it shows that it's probably in line with scoutism.
- sp332 9y agoI can't tell if this comment is meant as an insult. Anyway I think too many potential teachers have passed the buck on teaching financial literacy to young people, and I'm glad to see someone make an effort.
- vacri 9y ago... not sure why 'video game development' is in Science and Technology rather than Digital Art. Good on 'em though, hope it flourishes.
- rainbowmverse 9y agoIt would depend on how they define development. The people who do the art and the people who do the code are rarely the same person, even in smaller indie games.
- ekianjo 9y agoSince when is video game development considered a science topic?
- wingerlang 9y agoIt says Science and Technology.
- ekianjo 9y agoNo here is the actual quote: > connect girls to favorite science topics like video game development
- strictnein 9y agoIt's a web page for the girl scouts, not a policy white paper.
- mediocrejoker 9y agoVideo game development actually involves a lot of science and engineering and can require advanced 3D math, logic, psychology, etc.
- ekianjo 9y agoI beg to pardon but I highly doubt that the level they will practice at is ever going to touch upon any advanced topic you suggest, and not all games run in 3D either. Science is about observation and deriving insights and rules from what you see, video games is largely more of an engineering problem that typical science/exploration.
- Pica_soO 9y agoEvery video-game ever made is a system tailored to maximize the fun another system (the player) has while communicating. Optimizing any given system (no matter how mundane) leads, when approached rigorously and for a prolonged time - to a engineering mindset. Finally, im sure you could drop them a "scientific" task, and watch the number o interested persons drop to zero. Science can be horrifically tedious, i remember those experiment/measurement serieses my grandfather let me do when i was enthusiastic about chemistry in my childhood. One afternoon, of unexplained science drudgery, (a repetition of radiactivity measurments) killed my interest for chemistry back then. So horray, for taking people by something they naturally care about at that age (Games) and by that hook interest something that makes them grow.
- nxc18 9y agoThis is amazing. I especially appreciate how broad and inclusive it is. I hate the idea that a bunch of girls are going to do 'girls who code' or similar things, not like it, and think STEM isn't for them. Coding sucks sometimes and it is so important that we include all of stem (personally I prefer STEAM, stem + art). I don't like math, probably as a result of terrible scarring experiences in elementary school. But I still love technology and coding. We need to allow girls the flexibility to learn about all of stem and find out what will provide for 70+ years of happiness and productivity.
- spencerflem 9y agoI don't understand the point of STEAM. From what I can tell, the use of STEM is to describe the math-y type pursuits. Art, etc.. doesn't fit at all. It's not a bad thing to not be a STEM field, just different. I absolutely think that we should emphasize art more than we are now, but that doesn't make it STEM.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 9y agoYou could make a good philosophical argument that a significant portion of the technology industry for most workers today is art. Code structuring and design is art. Becoming a good leader is an art. Scientific research is an art form. Teaching properly is art. We should not discount the creative aspect in what we do.
- gogopuppygogo 9y agoArt is a form of expression. Software is a form of expression. The two are vastly different forms of expression. Personally I don't think that Art should be part of the process for a STEM degree. That said, it benefited Steve Jobs and Apple greatly to merge the two.
- JSONwebtoken 9y agoSo if everything is already an art, why include it in the acronym?
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- joycey 9y agoAs a former Girl Scout I think this is excellent. I think it'll be much easier to get girls to explore STEM activities if it's associated with an organization they're already involved in.
- ffmike 9y agoI'm a Girl Scout leader in the Midwest. Most of the leadership in this area (adult & youth) is at best skeptical about this initiative, and at worst openly hostile. Girls do not come to Scouting to learn about financial literacy and cybersecurity. They come to spend time with their friends, to be outdoors, to have parties, to do craft-y things. The cost of some of the new badges is also a great concern.
- clarkevans 9y agoI'm a Girl Scout leader in the Midwest. Most of the leadership in this area (adult & youth) is at best skeptical about this initiative, and at worst openly hostile. Young ladies face a cultural up-hill challenge with STEM expectations. Girls are told, for example, that they shouldn't bother with video game construction, but instead should learn knitting. As a parent, I have first hand experience with well-meaning social institutions that actively discourage science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. Girls do not come to Scouting to learn about financial literacy and cybersecurity. They come to spend time with their friends, to be outdoors, to have parties, to do craft-y things. In an enthusiastic environment, my 7 year old daughter and her friends enjoy MIT Scratch just as much as the boys. She's very into her transaction journal where she records her allowance income and outgoing expenses, adding up the numbers weekly with a new account balance. She likes to take her microscope outside to look at bug wings, etc.
- Spearchucker 9y agoI don't think ffmike was trying to denigrate, discourage or otherwise be negative about STEM. Rather, the suggestion is that there might be other, better places for STEM than Girl Scouts. Which is just as true for Boy Scouts.
- JadeNB 9y ago> Rather, the suggestion is that there might be other, better places for STEM than Girl Scouts. That's true—like in the schools! But, since girls aren't getting the support and the role models that they need there, it's good if they're at least getting them somewhere.
- Spearchucker 9y agoIt doesn't necessarily need to be enforced, but facilitated at least. Boys can't truly be boys unless there are no girls. As such there is a time for boys to be alone; with boys; a time with girls, and a time with adults. Each comes with a set of social rules, and degrees of letting their hair down. Gender equality is important. Critical, even, given society's propensity to marginalise and objectify women. But gender emancipation should not come at the cost of emasculation.
- RodericDay 9y ago> Boys can't truly be boys unless there are no girls. I disagree. In fact, I think this kind of stuff is very harmful for development. Imagine telling someone that they need "white-only" time, to unburden themselves from the special requirements imposed by hanging out in mixed company. It only serves to perpetuate out-sized notions of existing differences between genders.
- Spearchucker 9y agoIt may be worth not taking that sentence too literally, and in isolation. Try to derive its intent within the broader context and spirit of the whole paragraph.
- RodericDay 9y agoI'm pretty sure I understand the point of your post. You specifically refer to "degrees of letting hair down" and outright say: > gender emancipation should not come at the cost of emasculation Your compassionate/benevolent/mild/well-meaning sexism is still sexism. I'm curious if you can come up with a definition of "masculinity" that doesn't exclude women from basic human virtues and duties.
- microcolonel 9y ago> Imagine telling someone that they need "white-only" time Boys and girls (at least the majority of them) behave and socialize visibly differently, and can benefit from it. Races do not have the same sorts of inherent distinct needs, and if they do it's typically more granular than "white" or "black"; more likely you want time with the Italian side of your family, or the Somali side, or with your girlfriend's Panjabi roots. Why do you think so many women occasion a "girls' night out", or men "hang out with the guys"? Boys and girls have a lot more significant physiological and sociological differences than whites and blacks. Whereas, for example, the noticeable differences between a Japanese woman and a Mestizo woman come down to things like whether the earwax is likely dry or oily, or the probable size of teeth or lips. These sorts of things have basically no relevance or importance to social relationships. Drawing meaningful distinction between the cohort characteristics of boys and girls is not sexist. I have no interest in determining the rights or freedoms of either group based on these characteristics. I would merely suggest that people in either cohort are likely to have needs that differ more than within each cohort. A hen and a rooster are both chickens, but they are meaningfully distinct as well.
- aaron695 9y agoIt's funny. If it was Boy scouts is introducing sewing, cake making etc. The response would be along the lines of, that's great in theory but in practice boys just won't join Boys Scouts anymore.
- humanrebar 9y agoThere's enough outrageous stuff out there that it's not worth getting worked up over hypotheticals.
- muninn_ 9y agoBut if you introduce it as cooking, that's a whole different ball game. Besides, baking is a little bit impractical while camping compared to, idk, cooking eggs over an open fire? I'm not really against the STEM push in Girl Scouts I guess, I'm indifferent to it. Maybe it'll get a few more women interested in the field which is cool.
- humanrebar 9y ago> baking is a little bit impractical while camping You can bake lots of stuff with a campfire and a dutch oven.
- greglindahl 9y agoNot to mention roasting potatoes, corn, or even eggs in the coals of a fire, which is a close relative to using a dutch oven.
- muninn_ 9y agoSure let me pack icing, maybe some cupcake molds, and a pie dish too? It's impractical.
- greglindahl 9y agoLet's see: * There's a brand of dutch oven endorsed by the Boy Scouts of America * Scouting magazine has printed many articles with recipes for dutch ovens https://scoutingmagazine.org/category/outdoors/cooking/dutch-ovens/ https://scoutingmagazine.org/category/outdoors/cooking/dutch... * Boy's Life magazine runs articles about cooking in a dutch oven
- leephillips 9y agoTo be a merit badge counselor in the Boy Scouts, you must agree to a statement that begins, "The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God." I don't know any scientists or engineers who would be willing to sign on to this kind of bigotry, although I'm sure there are some. So the Boy Scouts make due with whoever's left. It doesn't seem as if the Girl Scouts have a similar requirement. If that's true, they'll have a larger pool of higher-quality counselors to help the girls with science and engineering study, and will soon outclass the Boy Scouts.
- pyroinferno 9y agoIt's "bigotry" for a company founded on religious principles to be religious?
- throwawayjava 9y agoFWIW there's a huge difference between "sorry, but this is a safe space for religious people" and "if you're not a religious person then you can't be a good American". I don't think anyone has a problem with the former. But yes, the latter is... worthy of criticism, especially from engineers and scientists who pay attention to things like empirical counter-examples. Maybe not bigoted, but also clearly false.
- leephillips 9y agoIn case this is a serious question, I'll answer you: no, of course not. But do you feel that the import of the statement I quoted is merely that the BSA is a religious organization?
- gorkonsine 9y ago>I don't know any scientists or engineers who would be willing to sign on to this kind of bigotry I guess you don't know many engineers, or you only know software engineers in Silicon Valley or something. Engineers, in my experience, and especially the non-software kind, tend to be extremely religious. In fact, studies have found that many middle eastern terrorists come from engineering backgrounds. The engineers I've worked with have been overwhelmingly conservative, and frequently religious. (Those that weren't conservative were usually libertarian.) Yeah, your typical Millennial programmer in the Bay Area probably isn't religious at all, but hang around some 40+ mechanical or electrical engineers and you'll see an entirely different crowd, with probably a lot of Trump supporters.