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You're right, but in the case of things like Storj and Sia, for instance, the ICO token is used to pay for the services offered by the network. What it really i
by darawk 9y ago
You're right, but in the case of things like Storj and Sia, for instance, the ICO token is used to pay for the services offered by the network. What it really is, is a tradable pre-sale. It's as if you could trade the perks offered by a Kickstarter. I'm not sure if that would make it exempt or not, but it is an interesting legal question.
- jameskegel 9y agoSia is NOT ethereum. Don't call it a token
- darawk 9y agoTrue, but that hardly seems material. I'm an investor in Sia, I like the project. Whether or not it's implemented as an Ethereum token is nearly meaningless. To be quite honest, it'd probably be better if it was, that way it could focus more on its core competencies.
- ChrisClark 9y agoThe term token is a generalized term to talk about the tradable asset on a blockchain. Bitcoin is the token on the Bitcoin blockchain. Ether is a token on the Ethereum blockchain, currently at a lower level than any of the ERC20 smart contract based tokens, but it's still referred to as a token.
- xorcist 9y agoHow much paid use does Storj or Sia have? Very few, if any, have bought into these tokens to use the underlying service. It's mostly "expectations of future profit", especially considering many of these tokens is described as having no use. The idea seems to be that useless tokens can not be considered securities, which seems as likely as a cop must answer truthfully if he is a cop.
- mahyarm 9y agoTickets to concerts, airpods, condos in london and tulips are subject to scalping and trading over MSRP. So even though people are trading service vouchers or physical objects, they are not a security just because a market has developed over their trade, speculative or not.
- darawk 9y agoYa, I would expect the SEC to take that position. But it seems like a subtle legal question, that has the potential to turn all kinds of clearly non-security products into 'securities' in the eyes of the law. Does standing in line to buy iphones on the day of release so you can sell them on eBay constitute buying a security? What about Air Jordans? Etc...At some point, the definition broadens to any purchase with the expectation of profitable resale, which is quite broad indeed. I don't think any court would allow such a broad interpretation of the SEC's power.
- xorcist 9y agoSure, but that's (literally) their work to define that boundary, and it is quite clear on which side of the line they intend ICOs to fall. Those where the outcome is based on the work of others are clearly securities. I would argue the outright useless ones are more a form of gambling (lottery tickets have no other uses and and the outcome can not be controlled) but then there's the element of getting your friends and neighbors in on it that complicates things. How it's being sold is likely what matters, and the websites can be pretty toned down compared to their forums and Twitter feeds.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- wmf 9y agothe ICO token is used to pay for the services offered by the network. And the ICO token is also used (and sometimes explicitly advertised) for investment as well. Uh oh.
- darawk 9y agoYes. That's why it's an interesting legal question.