11 ms·

As a kid, I grew up in a country with almost no advertising. Repeat after me: No ads in the streets, in the TV, in the radio, nowhere. One day we found a magaz

As a kid, I grew up in a country with almost no advertising. Repeat after me: No ads in the streets, in the TV, in the radio, nowhere. One day we found a magazine (from another country), which contained ads. Two people smoking cigarettes in a strangely alien world, some kind of jungle - or a safari, maybe. This image was so strange in many ways: Why is it there in a magazine, that was about something completely different? Who does it speak to? What is this strange world depicted there? Why does it feel a so - unreal? And why do the people smile in the picture, even though it is unreal? Image a day in your life without coming across an ad. Or a week. Or a year. Take a breath and imagine what the world would feel like. The need for advertising is deeply rooted in a society, that overproduces things and where a large part of your survival depends on your skill to sell. My deepest hope is that this world will be regarded just as strange as my kids eyes stopped before the strange picture of the two smokers.

moduspol 9y ago
Advertising is a fact of life, though. Without it, there's no way to inform potential customers of a new brand or product. I mean, imagine if it all disappeared tomorrow. Wouldn't people just stick to the megacorps and established brands they already know? Wouldn't this make it even that much tougher for a Netflix to compete with a Comcast, or an Uber/Lyft to compete with an entrenched taxi industry? How would Dollar Shave Club possibly compete with Gillette? I don't like ads, either, but the alternative is worse. It just seems unrealistic. I know it could be done--I just don't think it'd bring about some post-materialist society. It'd just allow us to pat ourselves on the back while making it that much tougher to start a business and compete against existing businesses.
- abhi3 9y ago
  It seems to me that the solution is not to ban advertisement but only certain kinds of them such as ones containing strong emotional (Ads guilting people into buying insurance) or aspirational content (won't you look so cool if you lived 'The Marlboro Life')
  - moduspol 9y ago
    That seems like a can of worms to me.
- theseatoms 9y ago
  It's a matter of push versus pull though. If I know I want a product, I can search for reviews and recommendations, (half of which I assume are astroturfed, but I'm counting those as "ads" which would disappear in this hypothetical.)
  - moduspol 9y ago
    How will I promote my new movie? Or book? How would I know to search for a Netflix or Uber or Dollar Shave Club or Game of Thrones? I wouldn't, until someone else told me about it. And they wouldn't tell me about it unless they found out somehow. And how could you possibly differentiate between grassroots interest and astroturfing, particularly online? Besides, how many months go by with you happily using your razor before you sit down to research whether there are better options? The vast majority of people choose to spend their time on more important things, thus further entrenching the status quo. It'd only make all the things people hate about megacorps worse. We've already got this dearth of creativity and risk-taking in Hollywood. Imagine how much worse it'd be if they couldn't advertise something new!
    - datagram 9y ago
      It seems to me like reviews and word-of-mouth can and already do a good job of all this. When I find out about new things, it's generally through social networks. And when I'm looking to buy something new I usually look for reviews. > How will I promote my new movie? Or book? The same way that people do today. Talk shows, trailers (which you let people organically share, rather than paying to put it in front of people), movie/book reviewers. > Besides, how many months go by with you happily using your razor before you sit down to research whether there are better options? I feel like you're countering your own point here. Buying a new razor when you're already happy with the one you're using is exactly the kind of consumerism that advertising encourages. > We've already got this dearth of creativity and risk-taking in Hollywood. Imagine how much worse it'd be if they couldn't advertise something new! I disagree. Imagine if advertising didn't exist, and the only way to get the word out about new movies was through movie reviews, and so studios were actually encouraged to make good movies. I think we would have a lot less riding on established IP.
- jimjimjim 9y ago
  advertising works in favor of the system/status quo/megacorps. not the little guy. Ads on tv do not show new things. They push brand. brand is mother, brand is father.
  - moduspol 9y ago
    I guess to me that comes off as a meaningless platitude. Ads on TV (and other mediums) absolutely do show new things, including each of the things I noted in the very comment you responded to. Megacorps benefit from pushing brand, but they'd benefit even more from nobody being able to push brand, because they already have one established.
    - jimjimjim 9y ago
      no platitudes around here. you can't deny (well you can but you shouldn't) that the vast majority of ads are all brand. Not talking about absolutes or semantics but: Without the Big Advertising people would drift off-brand. maybe boredom, maybe trying what their friend uses, maybe (surely not) be affected by price and quality.
      - moduspol 9y ago
        > Ads on tv do not show new things. They push brand. brand is mother, brand is father. This is a platitude. > you can't deny (well you can but you shouldn't) that the vast majority of ads are all brand. Maybe it is--it's just meaningless to my point. Even if 99% of ads are all entrenched megacorps reminding people they exist, that other 1% could be Netflix disrupting Comcast, or Uber/Lyft disrupting taxis, or whatever else. Those disruptors who were previously unknown benefit much more from their advertising than Coke reminding people to not stop buying Coke. > Without the Big Advertising people would drift off-brand. maybe boredom, maybe trying what their friend uses, maybe (surely not) be affected by price and quality. Imagine how much more effective that off-brand would be if it could tell consumers about its lower price or higher quality, rather than having to just hope they found out somehow... versus a known competitor and brand.
- visarga 9y ago
  > Without it, there's no way to inform potential customers of a new brand or product. What about word of mouth, observing other people, searching for a product online?
  - smsm42 9y ago
    Word of mouth is not enough for a 300-million market. Yet less observing other people, especially as many things aren't very observable. And to search for a product online, you need to know it exists and you want it. Nobody searched for iPhones before Apple started advertising them.
shostack 9y ago
I had similar thinking about how alien that would be in a previous discussion around service culture in the US vs. Germany. In the US, it is expected that employees in service businesses (think coffee shops, grocery stores, etc.) put on a smiling face and pretend to love their jobs. In Germany, I was told that is unheard of because it is thought of as inhumane to force someone to pretend they love their job like that. So as a result you get some less-than-enthusiastic responses from those employees. I encountered this a bit in a coffee shop in Vienna and it was stark to say the least.
- branchless 9y ago
  Agreed. A friend mocked British service standards the other day and I said that this showed people hadn't completely given up. It's a form of resistance.
  - sjclemmy 9y ago
    I have oft said that the people who give me dour customer service (which is a lot) have been to the Huddersfield School of Customer Service. Disclaimer: I live in Huddersfield and it is sometimes grim up north.
- jancsika 9y ago
  If I had to work a shit job like grocery store clerk, I'd much prefer an ineffectual dolt of a boss telling me to smile than I would a German realist boss telling me a smile isn't a requirement of my employment.
  - threatofrain 9y ago
    Or you'll have an American realist Walmart boss telling you to "cheer" up. I see it as unvalued emotional labor, and degrading to those who do it as they are non-negotiably expected to do it. Some people are into this, and some aren't -- but if you are poor and working retail, then you must smile and sometimes sing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkQJm_UGM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkQJm_UGM4
brianzelip 9y ago
Reminds me of how refreshing it was to not see any ads while traveling in Cuba almost 20 years ago.
passivepinetree 9y ago
If you don't mind sharing, where did you grow up? Was it a political influence that resulted in the lack of ads? Was everything state-run as a result?
- Dangeranger 9y ago
  Just an educated guess but it is most likely Cuba. [0] [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/how-do-cubans-do-business-in-a-country-that-bans-ads/474507/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/how-do-...
  - boomzilla 9y ago
    Well then the OP ignores the biggest advertiser of them all: the communist party.
    - smsm42 9y ago
      Most of that CP did, at least where I grew up, was not advertisement but slogans. Like "in God we trust" in US. Nobody really takes it as an ad for God.
      - ionised 9y ago
        > Nobody really takes it as an ad for God. Are you sure? Seems like the right-wing evangelicals of the US definitely do.
        smsm42 9y ago
        Could you quote a couple of them saying so? Because it doesn't match what I know about evangelicals, they don't exactly consider God something you can buy.
        ionised 9y ago
        I didn't mean it as a literal object you could buy.
jackvalentine 9y ago
The territory government here asked for public submissions regarding the possibility of relaxing restrictions on outdoor display advertising. It received more submissions than any other it appears: http://www.parliament.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1080913/2017-07-05-Media-Release-Record-Number-of-Submissions.pdf http://www.parliament.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004... While I haven't read every one, most submissions seem to be against relaxing restrictions and in favor of tightening them up.
- awalton 9y ago
  The problem is that companies can tangibly prove the benefit, even if it's minuscule (imagine if 1:10000 car ads will generate a sell at best, that's still better than no advertising), but the citizenry have a hard time proving the opposite - that having a sanctuary from advertising is actually a good thing. And because of that, I fully suspect ads to continue infiltrating our American (and British, and Australian) lives. Even privacy is easier to advocate for than the intangible peace of mind an ad-free space offers. Even if studies end up proving that advertising rots the brain and keeps us too engaged, even if it is elucidated as one of the causes of obesity and poor sleep hygiene and attention deficit syndromes... companies will simply argue it's too big of a hit to their bottom line to quit, and that will be the end of the discussion. ...and people wonder why AdBlocking continues to grow online.
  - jackvalentine 9y ago
    I suppose I might object that "making a sale" is a tangible benefit but that is a different conversation about the value of commerce in general. Let's not go there today! I heartily agree with your thesis though - making the case that 'nothing' is a good thing is incredibly difficult. It took decades to prove cigarettes dangerous then get rid of cigarette advertising and that was linked to an observable medical problem. I don't hold hope that we'll manage with advertising.
branchless 9y ago
I have no TV. When I see an advert if I'm round someone's house or something like this, when you have not seen adverts for a while, they just look ridiculous. Some person telling you with utmost urgency about something so trivial. I don't know why this is, but when you step back and are not used to adverts, when you do see them they just seem so transparently pathetic.
- sjclemmy 9y ago
  I turn the sound off when ads come on. I am always completely bewildered by them.
  - visarga 9y ago
    Used to do that too, when I was watching TV. It's strange how the perspective changes with no sound. You can block your sight by looking elsewhere, but you can't stop from hearing an open TV or radio. If you cut the sound, you cut their teeth.
smsm42 9y ago
> Image a day in your life without coming across an ad I have had such days. I read a lot of stuff online, and I have adblockers. My entertainment is supplied by books and TV, where I watch either channels like Netflix or recorded shows, where I can skip through commercials. It's not exactly not encountering ads - and I surely encounter billboards when I drive around (though I don't think I can recall any of them, the mind filters them out by now), but it's pretty close and I'm sure I've had days where I didn't see ads. The thing is, they didn't feel much different from the days where I saw some. > society, that overproduces things and where a large part of your survival depends on your skill to sell That is preferable to the society which underproduces things and where large part of your survival depends on you skill in finding how to satisfy basic needs - food, shelter, etc. I'd rather watch ads than be hungry. My deepest hope is to always live in the former kind of society - where productivity is so high that it's ok to spend resources on convincing people to consume stuff. I've lived in another kind of society - where people spend resources on finding way to get decent food, clothes, books, etc. and where ads convincing people to consume some luxurious goods could not be taken but as a cruel joke. I'd much rather take the overproducing one.
- apexalpha 9y ago
  >(though I don't think I can recall any of them, the mind filters them out by now), Oh no no no. That is not how that works. Coca cola doesn't put up signs, ads, billboards, coaters and napkin holders with their logo on it to get you to stop and think about coca cola. No. What they do it place their logo next to something that seems happy. Next to someone smiling or put it up in situations where people are happy. Relaxing on a beach? Coca cola flag. Sitting in a cafe with friends? Coca cola coasters sitting on the table. Slowly but surely, your mind will associate Coca cola with happiness and relaxing. And when that moment comes when you feel down. Your mind will think. I don't want to feel down. I want to feel happy. I want happy. I want cola. There is no such thing as 'filtering' out ads. They are not hoping you can recall them. They are designed to infiltrate your subconscious.
  - danovan 9y ago
    That's interesting. Any good book on that topic that you would recommend?
bwb 9y ago
Imagine if we can get cheap AR glasses or contacts out to the world with new batteries. Maybe you can block them all.

moduspol 9y ago

Advertising is a fact of life, though. Without it, there's no way to inform potential customers of a new brand or product. I mean, imagine if it all disappeared tomorrow. Wouldn't people just stick to the megacorps and established brands they already know? Wouldn't this make it even that much tougher for a Netflix to compete with a Comcast, or an Uber/Lyft to compete with an entrenched taxi industry? How would Dollar Shave Club possibly compete with Gillette? I don't like ads, either, but the alternative is worse. It just seems unrealistic. I know it could be done--I just don't think it'd bring about some post-materialist society. It'd just allow us to pat ourselves on the back while making it that much tougher to start a business and compete against existing businesses.

abhi3 9y ago
It seems to me that the solution is not to ban advertisement but only certain kinds of them such as ones containing strong emotional (Ads guilting people into buying insurance) or aspirational content (won't you look so cool if you lived 'The Marlboro Life')
- moduspol 9y ago
  That seems like a can of worms to me.
theseatoms 9y ago
It's a matter of push versus pull though. If I know I want a product, I can search for reviews and recommendations, (half of which I assume are astroturfed, but I'm counting those as "ads" which would disappear in this hypothetical.)
- moduspol 9y ago
  How will I promote my new movie? Or book? How would I know to search for a Netflix or Uber or Dollar Shave Club or Game of Thrones? I wouldn't, until someone else told me about it. And they wouldn't tell me about it unless they found out somehow. And how could you possibly differentiate between grassroots interest and astroturfing, particularly online? Besides, how many months go by with you happily using your razor before you sit down to research whether there are better options? The vast majority of people choose to spend their time on more important things, thus further entrenching the status quo. It'd only make all the things people hate about megacorps worse. We've already got this dearth of creativity and risk-taking in Hollywood. Imagine how much worse it'd be if they couldn't advertise something new!
  - datagram 9y ago
    It seems to me like reviews and word-of-mouth can and already do a good job of all this. When I find out about new things, it's generally through social networks. And when I'm looking to buy something new I usually look for reviews. > How will I promote my new movie? Or book? The same way that people do today. Talk shows, trailers (which you let people organically share, rather than paying to put it in front of people), movie/book reviewers. > Besides, how many months go by with you happily using your razor before you sit down to research whether there are better options? I feel like you're countering your own point here. Buying a new razor when you're already happy with the one you're using is exactly the kind of consumerism that advertising encourages. > We've already got this dearth of creativity and risk-taking in Hollywood. Imagine how much worse it'd be if they couldn't advertise something new! I disagree. Imagine if advertising didn't exist, and the only way to get the word out about new movies was through movie reviews, and so studios were actually encouraged to make good movies. I think we would have a lot less riding on established IP.
jimjimjim 9y ago
advertising works in favor of the system/status quo/megacorps. not the little guy. Ads on tv do not show new things. They push brand. brand is mother, brand is father.
- moduspol 9y ago
  I guess to me that comes off as a meaningless platitude. Ads on TV (and other mediums) absolutely do show new things, including each of the things I noted in the very comment you responded to. Megacorps benefit from pushing brand, but they'd benefit even more from nobody being able to push brand, because they already have one established.
  - jimjimjim 9y ago
    no platitudes around here. you can't deny (well you can but you shouldn't) that the vast majority of ads are all brand. Not talking about absolutes or semantics but: Without the Big Advertising people would drift off-brand. maybe boredom, maybe trying what their friend uses, maybe (surely not) be affected by price and quality.
    - moduspol 9y ago
      > Ads on tv do not show new things. They push brand. brand is mother, brand is father. This is a platitude. > you can't deny (well you can but you shouldn't) that the vast majority of ads are all brand. Maybe it is--it's just meaningless to my point. Even if 99% of ads are all entrenched megacorps reminding people they exist, that other 1% could be Netflix disrupting Comcast, or Uber/Lyft disrupting taxis, or whatever else. Those disruptors who were previously unknown benefit much more from their advertising than Coke reminding people to not stop buying Coke. > Without the Big Advertising people would drift off-brand. maybe boredom, maybe trying what their friend uses, maybe (surely not) be affected by price and quality. Imagine how much more effective that off-brand would be if it could tell consumers about its lower price or higher quality, rather than having to just hope they found out somehow... versus a known competitor and brand.
visarga 9y ago
> Without it, there's no way to inform potential customers of a new brand or product. What about word of mouth, observing other people, searching for a product online?
- smsm42 9y ago
  Word of mouth is not enough for a 300-million market. Yet less observing other people, especially as many things aren't very observable. And to search for a product online, you need to know it exists and you want it. Nobody searched for iPhones before Apple started advertising them.

shostack 9y ago

I had similar thinking about how alien that would be in a previous discussion around service culture in the US vs. Germany. In the US, it is expected that employees in service businesses (think coffee shops, grocery stores, etc.) put on a smiling face and pretend to love their jobs. In Germany, I was told that is unheard of because it is thought of as inhumane to force someone to pretend they love their job like that. So as a result you get some less-than-enthusiastic responses from those employees. I encountered this a bit in a coffee shop in Vienna and it was stark to say the least.

branchless 9y ago
Agreed. A friend mocked British service standards the other day and I said that this showed people hadn't completely given up. It's a form of resistance.
- sjclemmy 9y ago
  I have oft said that the people who give me dour customer service (which is a lot) have been to the Huddersfield School of Customer Service. Disclaimer: I live in Huddersfield and it is sometimes grim up north.
jancsika 9y ago
If I had to work a shit job like grocery store clerk, I'd much prefer an ineffectual dolt of a boss telling me to smile than I would a German realist boss telling me a smile isn't a requirement of my employment.
- threatofrain 9y ago
  Or you'll have an American realist Walmart boss telling you to "cheer" up. I see it as unvalued emotional labor, and degrading to those who do it as they are non-negotiably expected to do it. Some people are into this, and some aren't -- but if you are poor and working retail, then you must smile and sometimes sing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkQJm_UGM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOkQJm_UGM4

brianzelip 9y ago

Reminds me of how refreshing it was to not see any ads while traveling in Cuba almost 20 years ago.

passivepinetree 9y ago

If you don't mind sharing, where did you grow up? Was it a political influence that resulted in the lack of ads? Was everything state-run as a result?

Dangeranger 9y ago
Just an educated guess but it is most likely Cuba. [0] [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/how-do-cubans-do-business-in-a-country-that-bans-ads/474507/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/how-do-...
- boomzilla 9y ago
  Well then the OP ignores the biggest advertiser of them all: the communist party.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    Most of that CP did, at least where I grew up, was not advertisement but slogans. Like "in God we trust" in US. Nobody really takes it as an ad for God.
    - ionised 9y ago
      > Nobody really takes it as an ad for God. Are you sure? Seems like the right-wing evangelicals of the US definitely do.
      - smsm42 9y ago
        Could you quote a couple of them saying so? Because it doesn't match what I know about evangelicals, they don't exactly consider God something you can buy.
        ionised 9y ago
        I didn't mean it as a literal object you could buy.

jackvalentine 9y ago

The territory government here asked for public submissions regarding the possibility of relaxing restrictions on outdoor display advertising. It received more submissions than any other it appears: http://www.parliament.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1080913/2017-07-05-Media-Release-Record-Number-of-Submissions.pdf http://www.parliament.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004... While I haven't read every one, most submissions seem to be against relaxing restrictions and in favor of tightening them up.

awalton 9y ago
The problem is that companies can tangibly prove the benefit, even if it's minuscule (imagine if 1:10000 car ads will generate a sell at best, that's still better than no advertising), but the citizenry have a hard time proving the opposite - that having a sanctuary from advertising is actually a good thing. And because of that, I fully suspect ads to continue infiltrating our American (and British, and Australian) lives. Even privacy is easier to advocate for than the intangible peace of mind an ad-free space offers. Even if studies end up proving that advertising rots the brain and keeps us too engaged, even if it is elucidated as one of the causes of obesity and poor sleep hygiene and attention deficit syndromes... companies will simply argue it's too big of a hit to their bottom line to quit, and that will be the end of the discussion. ...and people wonder why AdBlocking continues to grow online.
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  I suppose I might object that "making a sale" is a tangible benefit but that is a different conversation about the value of commerce in general. Let's not go there today! I heartily agree with your thesis though - making the case that 'nothing' is a good thing is incredibly difficult. It took decades to prove cigarettes dangerous then get rid of cigarette advertising and that was linked to an observable medical problem. I don't hold hope that we'll manage with advertising.

branchless 9y ago

I have no TV. When I see an advert if I'm round someone's house or something like this, when you have not seen adverts for a while, they just look ridiculous. Some person telling you with utmost urgency about something so trivial. I don't know why this is, but when you step back and are not used to adverts, when you do see them they just seem so transparently pathetic.

sjclemmy 9y ago
I turn the sound off when ads come on. I am always completely bewildered by them.
- visarga 9y ago
  Used to do that too, when I was watching TV. It's strange how the perspective changes with no sound. You can block your sight by looking elsewhere, but you can't stop from hearing an open TV or radio. If you cut the sound, you cut their teeth.

smsm42 9y ago

> Image a day in your life without coming across an ad I have had such days. I read a lot of stuff online, and I have adblockers. My entertainment is supplied by books and TV, where I watch either channels like Netflix or recorded shows, where I can skip through commercials. It's not exactly not encountering ads - and I surely encounter billboards when I drive around (though I don't think I can recall any of them, the mind filters them out by now), but it's pretty close and I'm sure I've had days where I didn't see ads. The thing is, they didn't feel much different from the days where I saw some. > society, that overproduces things and where a large part of your survival depends on your skill to sell That is preferable to the society which underproduces things and where large part of your survival depends on you skill in finding how to satisfy basic needs - food, shelter, etc. I'd rather watch ads than be hungry. My deepest hope is to always live in the former kind of society - where productivity is so high that it's ok to spend resources on convincing people to consume stuff. I've lived in another kind of society - where people spend resources on finding way to get decent food, clothes, books, etc. and where ads convincing people to consume some luxurious goods could not be taken but as a cruel joke. I'd much rather take the overproducing one.

apexalpha 9y ago
>(though I don't think I can recall any of them, the mind filters them out by now), Oh no no no. That is not how that works. Coca cola doesn't put up signs, ads, billboards, coaters and napkin holders with their logo on it to get you to stop and think about coca cola. No. What they do it place their logo next to something that seems happy. Next to someone smiling or put it up in situations where people are happy. Relaxing on a beach? Coca cola flag. Sitting in a cafe with friends? Coca cola coasters sitting on the table. Slowly but surely, your mind will associate Coca cola with happiness and relaxing. And when that moment comes when you feel down. Your mind will think. I don't want to feel down. I want to feel happy. I want happy. I want cola. There is no such thing as 'filtering' out ads. They are not hoping you can recall them. They are designed to infiltrate your subconscious.
- danovan 9y ago
  That's interesting. Any good book on that topic that you would recommend?

bwb 9y ago

Imagine if we can get cheap AR glasses or contacts out to the world with new batteries. Maybe you can block them all.