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This is anecdata. By that reasoning why would we even have poor people if being poor drove everyone to success like it did to you? Do you actually think that an

This is anecdata. By that reasoning why would we even have poor people if being poor drove everyone to success like it did to you? Do you actually think that anyone who workedars hard as you would achieve the same level of success? If they could, wouldn't that just then become the minimum and you would have to work harder than that to achieve more? There is clearly something else going on here. This doesn't mean you shouldn't be proud of yourself, but if you were being intellectually honest you would realize that this is not a rational well researched stance. This topic has been researched to death already so we're not going to break any real ground but I would ask you two things specifically: 1. When you studied hard, were you supported to study hard? Were your basic necessities covered (food, shelter) so you could focus? A lot of kids don't even have this basic level of stability in their lives, and maybe you didn't either. 2. How did you get into computer science? When I was growing up I didn't know anyone who was a programmer of any kind and wouldn't have even known to consider it had I not gotten lucky and took a programming class in highschool partly because it allowed me to drive to the community college to do it and get out of school almost half of the day. If I hadn't had transportation and money for gas it would have never happened and who knows where I would be now.

ronnier 9y ago
> 1. When you studied hard, were you supported to study hard? I worked a fulltime job during ungrad and grad school (and did programming jobs on the side for about $75 per hour). I worked my way through. > How did you get into computer science? John Carmack mostly. I saw some guy play quake online and it blew me away. I saved money to buy a computer and pay for internet. Which lead into writing scripts and websites. Then into computer science.
- s73ver 9y ago
  So you had support while you were able to do those things. Most of the people you were disparaging don't.
- okreallywtf 9y ago
  I'm more interested in the process leading up to college, your work ethic definitely makes a difference there but your opportunities when you are younger affect whether you ever even go to college and how prepared you are once you get there. How did you write those scripts and websites, did you have a computer growing up? Internet access (what little internet there was to be had then that is)? I'm not trying to take away your achievements, but I think this kind of thinking is a big part of what is wrong with how we make public policy. We see things in a very narrow way (just human nature) and we generally have a hard time empathizing with other people and their experiences. I think if we could get over that and stop romanticizing the exceptions and start understanding better the average experiences of people in our societies, maybe we can make better decisions that allow more people to succeed. By the way working full time through undergrad and grad school would have been tough, I ended up taking out loans myself (partly so I could enjoy the experience a little more and not work all the time, only most of the time) so kudos to you for pulling that off. I'm not sure I want everyone to have to go through that (if even they could have done that, not too many people can make $75/hr even as professionals let alone students), but there is nothing wrong with taking pride in having done it yourself.

ronnier 9y ago

> 1. When you studied hard, were you supported to study hard? I worked a fulltime job during ungrad and grad school (and did programming jobs on the side for about $75 per hour). I worked my way through. > How did you get into computer science? John Carmack mostly. I saw some guy play quake online and it blew me away. I saved money to buy a computer and pay for internet. Which lead into writing scripts and websites. Then into computer science.

s73ver 9y ago
So you had support while you were able to do those things. Most of the people you were disparaging don't.
okreallywtf 9y ago
I'm more interested in the process leading up to college, your work ethic definitely makes a difference there but your opportunities when you are younger affect whether you ever even go to college and how prepared you are once you get there. How did you write those scripts and websites, did you have a computer growing up? Internet access (what little internet there was to be had then that is)? I'm not trying to take away your achievements, but I think this kind of thinking is a big part of what is wrong with how we make public policy. We see things in a very narrow way (just human nature) and we generally have a hard time empathizing with other people and their experiences. I think if we could get over that and stop romanticizing the exceptions and start understanding better the average experiences of people in our societies, maybe we can make better decisions that allow more people to succeed. By the way working full time through undergrad and grad school would have been tough, I ended up taking out loans myself (partly so I could enjoy the experience a little more and not work all the time, only most of the time) so kudos to you for pulling that off. I'm not sure I want everyone to have to go through that (if even they could have done that, not too many people can make $75/hr even as professionals let alone students), but there is nothing wrong with taking pride in having done it yourself.