5 ms·

I know, I know, we go over this too much on HN. But... isn't half the sentence missing when you say they can't find qualified local candidates without mentioni

by geebee 9y ago

I know, I know, we go over this too much on HN. But... isn't half the sentence missing when you say they can't find qualified local candidates without mentioning the pay? What positions were you trying to fill, and what pay and working conditions were you offering? Supply and demand are not suspended just because it's tech. There's a huge amount of demand, but not much supply for highly skilled software developers at $75k a year in San Francisco. There's a huge supply at $500k a year, but considerably less demand.

ryandrake 9y ago
Exactly. It's meaningless to discuss a "shortage" without mentioning the price offered. I say there's a shortage of new BMWs--I am willing to pay $10K for one.
- estebank 9y ago
  Although there are companies that import warm bodies for cheap, there're many companies that hire immigrants for the same salary and perks as locals. The problem with these conversations is that we all come with anecdata. From what I can see, for San Francisco, the brunt of H1Bs (which is not the totality of foreign nationals, doesn't include L1s and T1s) in San Francisco in 2016 earned a salary in the 100K-150K range[1] (without accounting for extra perks like food, health and stock grants). Is that low? High? I don't know, but it seems in line with what I would have expected. Keep in mind that that's the salary, you have to add the cost of actually bringing that person to the US (lawyers, relocation, temp housing, etc.). As for the BMW, you can get a 10 year old one for that price[2]. [1]: http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=Software+Engineer&city=San+Francisco&year=2016 http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=Software+Engineer&city... [2]: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sfc/sss?sort=pricedsc&max_price=10000&query=bmw https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sfc/sss?sort=pricedsc&ma...
  - geebee 9y ago
    My problem with paying the "market rate" is that if there's a shortage, this is probably a sign that the market rate is too low. "Is it too low?" That isn't really for me to say. Generally speaking, it isn't for the government to say either. In a market economy, the market determines this. I see no reason to put corporations in control of the immigration system, with the power to decide who is allowed to come here and what jobs they're allowed to work, just because they don't like the market's answer.

by geebee 9y ago

ryandrake 9y ago

Exactly. It's meaningless to discuss a "shortage" without mentioning the price offered. I say there's a shortage of new BMWs--I am willing to pay $10K for one.

estebank 9y ago
Although there are companies that import warm bodies for cheap, there're many companies that hire immigrants for the same salary and perks as locals. The problem with these conversations is that we all come with anecdata. From what I can see, for San Francisco, the brunt of H1Bs (which is not the totality of foreign nationals, doesn't include L1s and T1s) in San Francisco in 2016 earned a salary in the 100K-150K range[1] (without accounting for extra perks like food, health and stock grants). Is that low? High? I don't know, but it seems in line with what I would have expected. Keep in mind that that's the salary, you have to add the cost of actually bringing that person to the US (lawyers, relocation, temp housing, etc.). As for the BMW, you can get a 10 year old one for that price[2]. [1]: http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=Software+Engineer&city=San+Francisco&year=2016 http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=Software+Engineer&city... [2]: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sfc/sss?sort=pricedsc&max_price=10000&query=bmw https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sfc/sss?sort=pricedsc&ma...
- geebee 9y ago
  My problem with paying the "market rate" is that if there's a shortage, this is probably a sign that the market rate is too low. "Is it too low?" That isn't really for me to say. Generally speaking, it isn't for the government to say either. In a market economy, the market determines this. I see no reason to put corporations in control of the immigration system, with the power to decide who is allowed to come here and what jobs they're allowed to work, just because they don't like the market's answer.