5 ms·

Flash will die 10 years after this -- https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

by sashk 9y ago

make3 9y ago
I hadn't read this. The security and battery life arguments are the best imho. The last part about the apps make Apple look like they only want to protect their financial interests in a sort of sketchy monopolistic way.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  Yeah, that last justification is one with which I wholeheartedly disagree. Cross-platform done right is a good thing, and yet here we have Apple explicitly describing how it wants app developers to not use cross-platform technologies and instead rely on Apple-specific interfaces. In other words: "screw developer productivity, if you're not exclusively targeting our platforms, you're doing it wrong".
  - melling 9y ago
    What's a good cross-platform toolkit that exists today?
    - secstate 9y ago
      Depends on your end goal. But I'd say Tk/Tcl and Qt have done alright for themselves. They'll never be confused for native, but for a solid GUI app, they're quite solid. Then there's always Unity ...
      - cjensen 9y ago
        I'm a Qt programmer. It's very very good because it attempts to look as much as possible like a native app rather than forcing a "cross-platform look and feel" like Google has been doing lately. But it still feels wrong on the Mac. Little UI details which just "aren't done" on the Mac. Plus Qt is always a year or two behind on everything means that when MacOS alters or refines a UI element that Qt apps will still be doing things the old way.
      - melling 9y ago
        Tcl/Tk. Yeah, I worked with it for several years. It was great to work with and highly underrated. Safe to say I would never write a commercial consumer facing app with that.
    - ant6n 9y ago
      Opengl
      - melling 9y ago
        That’s pretty low level and I don’t think most people would consider that a toolkit.
    - omg_ketchup 9y ago
      Definitely Unity.
    - BenjiWiebe 9y ago
      wxWidgets
    - lukechilds 9y ago
      libui looks amazing but it's not quite ready yet https://github.com/andlabs/libui https://github.com/andlabs/libui
  - natecavanaugh 9y ago
    Is there an example of "cross-platform done right"? I have yet to see a case where an app is able to both exploit the depth of every devices capability and the breadth of multiple hardware and software configurations, without becoming a platform unto itself. I'm not saying cross-platform isn't possible, but "done right" is a pretty vague target to hit.
  - eridius 9y ago
    Cross-platform done right is a unicorn that doesn't exist.
- menacingly 9y ago
  It always made me feel like the open web is implicitly viewed as competition as well, but it's just not as palatable to the public to bash it
  - rimliu 9y ago
    I wish that people making this argument would learn how much of the modern web was first brought to public by Apple.
- Joeri 9y ago
  The security argument was convincing. The battery argument was weak and I'm sure Jobs knew. Video was a significant chunk of flash's use case, but not the only part, and flash was much more battery efficient than HTML5 at all the other stuff it did. Even today you can't do buttery smooth flash-style animations in javascript without some major hacks (like using webgl). Even simple effects like full-screen fade-in that flash could handle on a pentium can't be done smoothly at all in CSS.
  - eridius 9y ago
    The battery argument was not weak. It was actually one of the strongest arguments. Flash was a battery hog. Disabling flash on a laptop could double your battery life.
    - exodust 9y ago
      That's an outdated statistic. There's way too much javascript and unwanted video and other effects on the web today that your battery is still getting hammered. Turn off javascript today and you'll probably get huge battery savings.
      - eridius 9y ago
        There is a bunch of cruft on the web today but that doesn't change the fact that Flash ads suck up far more battery than any other ads.
      - Longhanks 9y ago
        Of course it's outdated. This post was from 2010. Flash was used everywhere in 2010, of course disabling it gave you more battery life.
    - Joeri 9y ago
      Do exactly the same animation with js or even css as you did with flash, and it will use more battery. Disabling flash turned off the animations, so obviously it saved on battery, but the reason for flash being a battery hog was how it was used, not an innate aspect of the technology. Jobs' proposed alternative to flash, html5, did not solve the battery hogging problem, just made it move over to html5. If anything, it made it worse because you lost the quick fix of disabling flash (or rather click-to-play). That's why even iOS devices have ad blockers now, the mobile web is horrible without them.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
melling 9y ago
Here's Jobs commenting on this: https://youtu.be/EMXwa9EtehE https://youtu.be/EMXwa9EtehE
bdcravens 9y ago
Worth noting that Adobe stopped distributing Flash Player for Android in 2012, and final update was in 2013.

Flash will die 10 years after this -- https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

by sashk 9y ago

Flash will die 10 years after this -- https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

make3 9y ago

I hadn't read this. The security and battery life arguments are the best imho. The last part about the apps make Apple look like they only want to protect their financial interests in a sort of sketchy monopolistic way.

yellowapple 9y ago
Yeah, that last justification is one with which I wholeheartedly disagree. Cross-platform done right is a good thing, and yet here we have Apple explicitly describing how it wants app developers to not use cross-platform technologies and instead rely on Apple-specific interfaces. In other words: "screw developer productivity, if you're not exclusively targeting our platforms, you're doing it wrong".
- melling 9y ago
  What's a good cross-platform toolkit that exists today?
  - secstate 9y ago
    Depends on your end goal. But I'd say Tk/Tcl and Qt have done alright for themselves. They'll never be confused for native, but for a solid GUI app, they're quite solid. Then there's always Unity ...
    - cjensen 9y ago
      I'm a Qt programmer. It's very very good because it attempts to look as much as possible like a native app rather than forcing a "cross-platform look and feel" like Google has been doing lately. But it still feels wrong on the Mac. Little UI details which just "aren't done" on the Mac. Plus Qt is always a year or two behind on everything means that when MacOS alters or refines a UI element that Qt apps will still be doing things the old way.
    - melling 9y ago
      Tcl/Tk. Yeah, I worked with it for several years. It was great to work with and highly underrated. Safe to say I would never write a commercial consumer facing app with that.
  - ant6n 9y ago
    Opengl
    - melling 9y ago
      That’s pretty low level and I don’t think most people would consider that a toolkit.
  - omg_ketchup 9y ago
    Definitely Unity.
  - BenjiWiebe 9y ago
    wxWidgets
  - lukechilds 9y ago
    libui looks amazing but it's not quite ready yet https://github.com/andlabs/libui https://github.com/andlabs/libui
- natecavanaugh 9y ago
  Is there an example of "cross-platform done right"? I have yet to see a case where an app is able to both exploit the depth of every devices capability and the breadth of multiple hardware and software configurations, without becoming a platform unto itself. I'm not saying cross-platform isn't possible, but "done right" is a pretty vague target to hit.
- eridius 9y ago
  Cross-platform done right is a unicorn that doesn't exist.
menacingly 9y ago
It always made me feel like the open web is implicitly viewed as competition as well, but it's just not as palatable to the public to bash it
- rimliu 9y ago
  I wish that people making this argument would learn how much of the modern web was first brought to public by Apple.
Joeri 9y ago
The security argument was convincing. The battery argument was weak and I'm sure Jobs knew. Video was a significant chunk of flash's use case, but not the only part, and flash was much more battery efficient than HTML5 at all the other stuff it did. Even today you can't do buttery smooth flash-style animations in javascript without some major hacks (like using webgl). Even simple effects like full-screen fade-in that flash could handle on a pentium can't be done smoothly at all in CSS.
- eridius 9y ago
  The battery argument was not weak. It was actually one of the strongest arguments. Flash was a battery hog. Disabling flash on a laptop could double your battery life.
  - exodust 9y ago
    That's an outdated statistic. There's way too much javascript and unwanted video and other effects on the web today that your battery is still getting hammered. Turn off javascript today and you'll probably get huge battery savings.
    - eridius 9y ago
      There is a bunch of cruft on the web today but that doesn't change the fact that Flash ads suck up far more battery than any other ads.
    - Longhanks 9y ago
      Of course it's outdated. This post was from 2010. Flash was used everywhere in 2010, of course disabling it gave you more battery life.
  - Joeri 9y ago
    Do exactly the same animation with js or even css as you did with flash, and it will use more battery. Disabling flash turned off the animations, so obviously it saved on battery, but the reason for flash being a battery hog was how it was used, not an innate aspect of the technology. Jobs' proposed alternative to flash, html5, did not solve the battery hogging problem, just made it move over to html5. If anything, it made it worse because you lost the quick fix of disabling flash (or rather click-to-play). That's why even iOS devices have ad blockers now, the mobile web is horrible without them.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

melling 9y ago

Here's Jobs commenting on this: https://youtu.be/EMXwa9EtehE https://youtu.be/EMXwa9EtehE

bdcravens 9y ago

Worth noting that Adobe stopped distributing Flash Player for Android in 2012, and final update was in 2013.