5 ms·

Yes. If engineers were routinely paid $500k+ annually, I'm sure more US citizens would be interested in becoming qualified.

ssambros 9y ago
So apparently $100k+ is not enough money to interest the citizens. I wonder why that's the case. By they way, the next step after not being able to hire a 60k H1B worker is usually to hire a 60k outsourced remote worker, not to hire a 150k "citizen".
- morgante 9y ago
  Certainly $100k+ is enough to interest some citizens. But there's always the marginal citizen who would be swayed for more money. Anecdotally, I had lots of classmates who aggressively pursued careers in finance not because they had any intrinsic interest in the field but because they heard it can pay exceptionally well. If technology had the same reputation (it's beginning to acquire it, but is somewhat behind), more of them would have pursued it instead. Note: I'm not saying this should necessarily be the goal. Personally, I think it's fine if we import additional tech labor from around the world, and even prefer that to using wages as a carrot for more citizens. > By they way, the next step after not being able to hire a 60k H1B worker is usually to hire a 60k outsourced remote worker, not to hire a 150k "citizen". This article is not about H1Bs. Many of the foreign-born tech employees are permanent residents who compete directly in the same market as American-born employees. Hiring in tech is something of a bifurcated market and there is H1B hiring both in the abusive lower-wage sector and higher-pay direct employment sector.
- smelterdemon 9y ago
  >So apparently $100k+ is not enough money to interest the citizens. I wonder why that's the case. Lots of other career fields which offer more money and/or prestige? Anecdata: many of my friends with the aptitude for software dev are in med school now.
- s73ver 9y ago
  Because many of the people who could make $100k doing software could make several multiples of that doing something like finance, and be in a more respected profession to boot. Whenever the salary question comes up, people are always quick to compare it to the country at large. But that's not a valid comparison; someone who would be a qualified software engineer isn't deciding between that and being a retail clerk. They're deciding between going into that or something like finance, where they can make many multiples of what they could as a software developer.
  - tanilama 9y ago
    I think 100k is still attractive, when u can only make 50k. Seriously though, are we really arguing why cannot everyone just get over themselves and work for Wall Street now? Only that level of vanity is worthy of an incentive, otherwise it is not worth it?
tanilama 9y ago
I doubt? I think HN people are not as delusional as this. 100k+ is definitely a good salary already. It is the fucking 90% percentile of the whole country. 500k+ I think you are begging the companies to outsource all code work to India. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  100K+ is enough to survive comfortably while you work. 500K+ is enough to survive comfortably after you work for a moderate stint. Or to afford a significant capital investment like a small property, or to work for yourself on your pipe dream for awhile. If people saw a path to long-term financial security which would enable them to drop the shackles of full-time employment before retirement age, of course they would flock to a profession. But they don't; they see a comfortable wage that could potentially evaporate if there is a bubble, or the field moves rapidly, or there will be a glut of people trying something similar by the time they finish retraining. It's a risk:reward decision, and the risk is far from 0. So how much is that theoretical 100K really worth to someone looking at a very large investment to learn a new skill?
  - tanilama 9y ago
    They can go to finance then. If that is what Americans need to incentivize themselves to learn Mathematics, from your description sounds like gambling, such industry already exists, that is the finance/hedge-funding industry.
vaishaksuresh 9y ago
The median wage from my memory is 60k a year. You make it sound like money is the biggest factor in going into STEM when a lot of kids don't even go to colleges. The shortage is not because you don't get paid enough, the shortage is because not enough people can afford the expensive college degree. 4 years of undergrad cost me < $1000 and the same thing costs >$50,000 in the US.

ssambros 9y ago

So apparently $100k+ is not enough money to interest the citizens. I wonder why that's the case. By they way, the next step after not being able to hire a 60k H1B worker is usually to hire a 60k outsourced remote worker, not to hire a 150k "citizen".

morgante 9y ago
Certainly $100k+ is enough to interest some citizens. But there's always the marginal citizen who would be swayed for more money. Anecdotally, I had lots of classmates who aggressively pursued careers in finance not because they had any intrinsic interest in the field but because they heard it can pay exceptionally well. If technology had the same reputation (it's beginning to acquire it, but is somewhat behind), more of them would have pursued it instead. Note: I'm not saying this should necessarily be the goal. Personally, I think it's fine if we import additional tech labor from around the world, and even prefer that to using wages as a carrot for more citizens. > By they way, the next step after not being able to hire a 60k H1B worker is usually to hire a 60k outsourced remote worker, not to hire a 150k "citizen". This article is not about H1Bs. Many of the foreign-born tech employees are permanent residents who compete directly in the same market as American-born employees. Hiring in tech is something of a bifurcated market and there is H1B hiring both in the abusive lower-wage sector and higher-pay direct employment sector.
smelterdemon 9y ago
>So apparently $100k+ is not enough money to interest the citizens. I wonder why that's the case. Lots of other career fields which offer more money and/or prestige? Anecdata: many of my friends with the aptitude for software dev are in med school now.
s73ver 9y ago
Because many of the people who could make $100k doing software could make several multiples of that doing something like finance, and be in a more respected profession to boot. Whenever the salary question comes up, people are always quick to compare it to the country at large. But that's not a valid comparison; someone who would be a qualified software engineer isn't deciding between that and being a retail clerk. They're deciding between going into that or something like finance, where they can make many multiples of what they could as a software developer.
- tanilama 9y ago
  I think 100k is still attractive, when u can only make 50k. Seriously though, are we really arguing why cannot everyone just get over themselves and work for Wall Street now? Only that level of vanity is worthy of an incentive, otherwise it is not worth it?

tanilama 9y ago

I doubt? I think HN people are not as delusional as this. 100k+ is definitely a good salary already. It is the fucking 90% percentile of the whole country. 500k+ I think you are begging the companies to outsource all code work to India. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

leggomylibro 9y ago
100K+ is enough to survive comfortably while you work. 500K+ is enough to survive comfortably after you work for a moderate stint. Or to afford a significant capital investment like a small property, or to work for yourself on your pipe dream for awhile. If people saw a path to long-term financial security which would enable them to drop the shackles of full-time employment before retirement age, of course they would flock to a profession. But they don't; they see a comfortable wage that could potentially evaporate if there is a bubble, or the field moves rapidly, or there will be a glut of people trying something similar by the time they finish retraining. It's a risk:reward decision, and the risk is far from 0. So how much is that theoretical 100K really worth to someone looking at a very large investment to learn a new skill?
- tanilama 9y ago
  They can go to finance then. If that is what Americans need to incentivize themselves to learn Mathematics, from your description sounds like gambling, such industry already exists, that is the finance/hedge-funding industry.

vaishaksuresh 9y ago

The median wage from my memory is 60k a year. You make it sound like money is the biggest factor in going into STEM when a lot of kids don't even go to colleges. The shortage is not because you don't get paid enough, the shortage is because not enough people can afford the expensive college degree. 4 years of undergrad cost me < $1000 and the same thing costs >$50,000 in the US.