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"....At the high end, there are no substitute US citizens....." This can't be overstated enough. I think the immigration that is critical to the US is the hig

"....At the high end, there are no substitute US citizens....." This can't be overstated enough. I think the immigration that is critical to the US is the high end immigration, not the low end stuff like H1B. I'm just afraid that the chanting mobs will want to throw the baby out with the bath water. We NEED the NIW-types, we don't really need most of the H1B-types. So if the political environment is such that we need to cut loose some H1B-types to save the NIW-types... we should do so without hesitation.

gumby 9y ago
Those "High end" people come in on H1s as well!
- bilbo0s 9y ago
  H1s are not even on the same field of play as NIWs... there really is just no comparison. That's why it's called a (N)ational (I)nterests (W)aiver. Because everyone from the commerce department, to the congress, to the military and intelligence people all agree that we need that guy's brainpower. Or more precisely... they all agree that we need to deny that guy's brainpower to every other nation on earth if possible.
  - gumby 9y ago
    That's an immigrant visa, not a working visa. The question was working visas someone like Lecun whom I'm pretty certain showed up here first on an H1-B.
- qq66 9y ago
  Yes, of course they do. The H1B program is critical for American competitiveness.
geebee 9y ago
What would you estimate as a minimum salary level for your definition of "high end?" To me, since these workers tend to have grad degrees and are very talented, I'd peg it to a fairly high level law, medical, business, or finance worker. In short, anything less than $250k a year would get you laughed out of the building, and we're probably looking at $400k ore more. I'm not sure what the percentages are here, but yeah, like you'd I'd guess that the percentage of H1Bs at these salary levels is very low. In short, if the H1B visa were limited to these sorts of workers, my guess is there would be no real discussion or controversy about the program. Kind of astonishing that we award these by lottery. The whole system is really bad. Then again, it is used cynically by people who defend the program (they trot out the small percentage of very highly paid people and say "what you don't want this guy working in the US?", as if that is the issue or is in any way representative of 97% of the use of the program).
- Veelox 9y ago
  I think $250k is a little high. You can have "high end" talent fresh out of grad school and make less then that. Maybe $100k or $150k would be better.
  - geebee 9y ago
    I don't think it's too high. If all you're willing to pay is 100k, I'm not prepared to believe that you're trying to hire a desperately needed, highly skilled worker, especially in silicon valley (where claims of a shortage are loudest). Not even close.
robmass94 9y ago
>I think the immigration that is critical to the US is the high end immigration, not the low end stuff like H1B. High-end immigration was the original purpose of the program, no? But it's since been abused.
qq66 9y ago
Not all H1B is "low end"." There is H1B use and there is H1B abuse. They are not comparable. I work with some extraordinarily talented people on H1B visas who would absolutely not have an US replacement if they were not here.

gumby 9y ago

Those "High end" people come in on H1s as well!

bilbo0s 9y ago
H1s are not even on the same field of play as NIWs... there really is just no comparison. That's why it's called a (N)ational (I)nterests (W)aiver. Because everyone from the commerce department, to the congress, to the military and intelligence people all agree that we need that guy's brainpower. Or more precisely... they all agree that we need to deny that guy's brainpower to every other nation on earth if possible.
- gumby 9y ago
  That's an immigrant visa, not a working visa. The question was working visas someone like Lecun whom I'm pretty certain showed up here first on an H1-B.
qq66 9y ago
Yes, of course they do. The H1B program is critical for American competitiveness.

geebee 9y ago

What would you estimate as a minimum salary level for your definition of "high end?" To me, since these workers tend to have grad degrees and are very talented, I'd peg it to a fairly high level law, medical, business, or finance worker. In short, anything less than $250k a year would get you laughed out of the building, and we're probably looking at $400k ore more. I'm not sure what the percentages are here, but yeah, like you'd I'd guess that the percentage of H1Bs at these salary levels is very low. In short, if the H1B visa were limited to these sorts of workers, my guess is there would be no real discussion or controversy about the program. Kind of astonishing that we award these by lottery. The whole system is really bad. Then again, it is used cynically by people who defend the program (they trot out the small percentage of very highly paid people and say "what you don't want this guy working in the US?", as if that is the issue or is in any way representative of 97% of the use of the program).

Veelox 9y ago
I think $250k is a little high. You can have "high end" talent fresh out of grad school and make less then that. Maybe $100k or $150k would be better.
- geebee 9y ago
  I don't think it's too high. If all you're willing to pay is 100k, I'm not prepared to believe that you're trying to hire a desperately needed, highly skilled worker, especially in silicon valley (where claims of a shortage are loudest). Not even close.

robmass94 9y ago

>I think the immigration that is critical to the US is the high end immigration, not the low end stuff like H1B. High-end immigration was the original purpose of the program, no? But it's since been abused.

qq66 9y ago

Not all H1B is "low end"." There is H1B use and there is H1B abuse. They are not comparable. I work with some extraordinarily talented people on H1B visas who would absolutely not have an US replacement if they were not here.