5 ms·

How Kids See the World Depends a Lot on Genetics

103 points by sciadvance 9y ago

taeric 9y ago
Really neat article. I'd probably change the title to "How Kids Scan..." I was expecting something more about the inner model folks build for what makes up the world. It would be interesting to me if this was somehow a physical characteristic of the eye. I'd also be interested to know if there are somehow more "optimal" methods of scanning than others. Tangentially, I do worry about the emphasis on eye contact in children. It is almost like we punish kids for not wanting to look at us. It certainly seems to help know they are listening, but it is worrying to have tension just because someone doesn't want to make eye contact.
- kurthr 9y ago
  Just give your child a mobile device. You won't have to worry about making eye contact again, until you take it away :^) Really, not worrying whether your kids learn to pay attention to eyes and faces to understand other people around them, is about like not worrying whether they learn to speak or read. These things might just happen, but if they don't you will both be really miserable by the time they are 10.
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  High School teacher here. I generally try not to take offense when I am talking to a student and they don't make much eye contact. Some of my coworkers take great offense when students don't make eye contact but I think it's just something that teenagers don't do (with adults/uthoroty figures). Also, some of my students are giving you the most attention when they are NOT looking at you. Doesn't help that student desks are too damn short so talking to a sitting student forces you to loom over them like some cartoonesque evil authority figure. No one likes making eye contact in that kind of situation.
- csours 9y ago
  > It certainly seems to help know they are listening, but it is worrying to have tension just because someone doesn't want to make eye contact. It really helps communication for many people. People with limited hearing rely on some level of lip reading, in addition to just following body language. Also, if you are maintaining eye contact, you are generally pointing your face at the other person, and that REALLY helps your voice get to their ears. I have a friend who talks to the ground and I have to consistently ask her to repeat herself.
kurthr 9y ago
It's almost like feature detection, image segmentation, object detection, scene labeling, and tracking are pre-wired at some level... that would make learning a lot faster!
mitchellshow 9y ago
Cool study, but it is my understanding that twin studies have a tendency to erroneously assume genetic causation since they fail to control for conditions the twins share in prenatal environments, which can (and do) affect behavior. Some context: http://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/behavioral-genetics.html http://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/behavioral-genetics.html
- fmihaila 9y ago
  In this particular study, identical twins are compared against fraternal twins, which do share the prenatal environment.
- 1maginary 9y ago
  They controlled for that by having about as many fraternal twins in this study, though. It's particularly surprising to me that they got very similar results with regards to discrepancy between fraternal and identical twins when testing again at a later age.
  - jasonkostempski 9y ago
    I don't get how that could be a control against assuming genetic causation. Fraternal twins still have similar genetics, right?
    - klodolph 9y ago
      Fraternal twins and identical twins both have the same environment growing up, they experience the same hormones at the same time during gestation, they live in the same city, sleep in the same bed. They eat the same foods at the same times of day and in the same amounts, excepting personal preference. However, fraternal twins share 50% of their genes (on average) and identical twins share near 100%.
      - PeterisP 9y ago
        could it be be that such studies underestimate these effects because of this obvious assumption that fraternal twins share 50% of their genes - IMHO they share more than that because for all genes that "matter" their parents genes would be quite correlated. Contrary to the popular saying, like attracts like. Parents are exceedingly likely to share visible traits and also mental traits - so the correlation between siblings wouldn't be halfway between random member of population and an identical twin, but much closer to the identical twin.
ddebernardy 9y ago
It's not clear from the summary or a very quick glance at the articles whether the researchers controlled for sex differences or impact on parent attitudes towards fraternal twins. It is sensible to assume that one sex will imitate dad while the other will imitate mom, or that one toddler receives more attention than another from either parent. Might anyone familiar with the topic have some insights on this?
KittiHawk 9y ago
This makes me wonder how much differences in eye contact between cultures (in terms of etiquette) is due to prevailing genetic influences. Like if most of the people in a group are wired to make less eye contact, maybe that's how the social norms get developed.
clarkevans 9y ago
Earlier eye tracking results by the Marcus Autism Center's Ami Klin and Warren Jones is described a 2011 TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/ami_klin_a_new_way_to_diagnose_autism https://www.ted.com/talks/ami_klin_a_new_way_to_diagnose_aut...

103 points by sciadvance 9y ago

Really neat article. I'd probably change the title to "How Kids Scan..." I was expecting something more about the inner model folks build for what makes up the world. It would be interesting to me if this was somehow a physical characteristic of the eye. I'd also be interested to know if there are somehow more "optimal" methods of scanning than others. Tangentially, I do worry about the emphasis on eye contact in children. It is almost like we punish kids for not wanting to look at us. It certainly seems to help know they are listening, but it is worrying to have tension just because someone doesn't want to make eye contact.

kurthr 9y ago
Just give your child a mobile device. You won't have to worry about making eye contact again, until you take it away :^) Really, not worrying whether your kids learn to pay attention to eyes and faces to understand other people around them, is about like not worrying whether they learn to speak or read. These things might just happen, but if they don't you will both be really miserable by the time they are 10.
Pulcinella 9y ago
High School teacher here. I generally try not to take offense when I am talking to a student and they don't make much eye contact. Some of my coworkers take great offense when students don't make eye contact but I think it's just something that teenagers don't do (with adults/uthoroty figures). Also, some of my students are giving you the most attention when they are NOT looking at you. Doesn't help that student desks are too damn short so talking to a sitting student forces you to loom over them like some cartoonesque evil authority figure. No one likes making eye contact in that kind of situation.
csours 9y ago
> It certainly seems to help know they are listening, but it is worrying to have tension just because someone doesn't want to make eye contact. It really helps communication for many people. People with limited hearing rely on some level of lip reading, in addition to just following body language. Also, if you are maintaining eye contact, you are generally pointing your face at the other person, and that REALLY helps your voice get to their ears. I have a friend who talks to the ground and I have to consistently ask her to repeat herself.

kurthr 9y ago

It's almost like feature detection, image segmentation, object detection, scene labeling, and tracking are pre-wired at some level... that would make learning a lot faster!

mitchellshow 9y ago

Cool study, but it is my understanding that twin studies have a tendency to erroneously assume genetic causation since they fail to control for conditions the twins share in prenatal environments, which can (and do) affect behavior. Some context: http://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/behavioral-genetics.html http://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/behavioral-genetics.html

fmihaila 9y ago
In this particular study, identical twins are compared against fraternal twins, which do share the prenatal environment.
1maginary 9y ago
They controlled for that by having about as many fraternal twins in this study, though. It's particularly surprising to me that they got very similar results with regards to discrepancy between fraternal and identical twins when testing again at a later age.
- jasonkostempski 9y ago
  I don't get how that could be a control against assuming genetic causation. Fraternal twins still have similar genetics, right?
  - klodolph 9y ago
    Fraternal twins and identical twins both have the same environment growing up, they experience the same hormones at the same time during gestation, they live in the same city, sleep in the same bed. They eat the same foods at the same times of day and in the same amounts, excepting personal preference. However, fraternal twins share 50% of their genes (on average) and identical twins share near 100%.
    - PeterisP 9y ago
      could it be be that such studies underestimate these effects because of this obvious assumption that fraternal twins share 50% of their genes - IMHO they share more than that because for all genes that "matter" their parents genes would be quite correlated. Contrary to the popular saying, like attracts like. Parents are exceedingly likely to share visible traits and also mental traits - so the correlation between siblings wouldn't be halfway between random member of population and an identical twin, but much closer to the identical twin.

ddebernardy 9y ago

It's not clear from the summary or a very quick glance at the articles whether the researchers controlled for sex differences or impact on parent attitudes towards fraternal twins. It is sensible to assume that one sex will imitate dad while the other will imitate mom, or that one toddler receives more attention than another from either parent. Might anyone familiar with the topic have some insights on this?

KittiHawk 9y ago

This makes me wonder how much differences in eye contact between cultures (in terms of etiquette) is due to prevailing genetic influences. Like if most of the people in a group are wired to make less eye contact, maybe that's how the social norms get developed.

clarkevans 9y ago

Earlier eye tracking results by the Marcus Autism Center's Ami Klin and Warren Jones is described a 2011 TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/ami_klin_a_new_way_to_diagnose_autism https://www.ted.com/talks/ami_klin_a_new_way_to_diagnose_aut...