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I wonder if these types of privately owned parks have gained popularity precisely because of the restrictions placed on them. People discover one and then keep

I wonder if these types of privately owned parks have gained popularity precisely because of the restrictions placed on them. People discover one and then keep going back because it's nice, and then overtime it becomes a more popular place for locals to visit because it has lots of visitors and is more kept up then the actual public places. For example, I've been disheartened by some of the parks I've visited in Baltimore. There's trash everywhere and sometimes I wonder if the city even knows the park exists.

TACIXAT 9y ago
Oh Baltimore. The park I walk in every morning has a dog park with no signs. They just put up fences, didn't announce it. I really appreciate having that off leash area everyday for my dogs, but they could market it a little better. (This is technically in Baltimore county.) They have trash cans in the dog park but no one was collecting them. I had to flag down the trashmen a few days ago and ask them what needed to happen for them to get it. They thought the dog park was a locked area. A lot of the nicer streets in the more neglected areas are nice because residents go out and pick up the trash. I've given people shit who I've seen littering in my neighborhood, but at the same time, there aren't trash cans on every corner for them to use.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  You know what I do when there are no trash cans? I carry it around with me until there are. I have walked 3 miles through residential areas carrying a damn can so screw the assholes littering.
  - ensiferum 9y ago
    +1 I do exactly the same. If everyone was like you or I there'd be no litter anywhere. What especially irritates me are smokers throwing their rubbish everywhere. Why is practically every smoker a full on retard?
matt4077 9y ago
Public spaces aren't anarchist lands of lawlessness. Cities can and do prohibit uses that have a negative impact on the space or other visitors. They can also invest in up keeping, and there are many examples of public spaces that rival anything private. New York's Central Park comes to mind, or Yellowstone. But at the end of the day, US citizen always seem to agree when asked if taxes are too high and the government is wasteful, and that opinion does not correlate with actual taxation or spending. The result is the decay of public property. A nice comparison that I recently came across, illustrating the last point: The government spends just about half as much on IT per office worker compared to the private sector.
- djmobley 9y ago
  In London there is a wide array of low level nuisance and antisocial behaviour that the authorities are unwilling/unable to tackle. Drug dealing and use, drinking on the street, prostitues loitering, homeless people begging, women being catcalled and harassed, groups of youths congregating, littering, etc. are all commonplace in truly public spaces. Many of these 'pseudo-public spaces' (think Granary Square, More London, Canary Wharf) are enormously popular with families and businesspeople precisely because they have security personnel who do a good job of tackling these things.
  - nkoren 9y ago
    Good grief, which London do you live in? I've lived here for nine years, mostly in Brixton and Bermondsey. > Drug dealing and use Barely visible compared to virtually every other city I've been to > prostitues loitering Haven't been a thing in London for a decade, from what people tell me. Certainly never seen it. Evidently that business has moved wholly online. > homeless people begging A fraction of what it is in any comparable American city -- but certainly on the rise in recent years due to Tory policies. > women being catcalled and harassed This is definitely an actual problem. > groups of youths congregating Good grief, how is this even a problem? They're citizens and that's their right. A city which helps young people to congregate is doing its job. More power to them, provided they behave well. > littering Yes, that's sometimes a problem. Not so much associated with youth, in my experience: yobs come in all ages. > Many of these 'pseudo-public spaces' (think Granary > Square, More London, Canary Wharf) are enormously popular > with families and businesspeople precisely because they > have security personnel who do a good job of tackling > these things. There's nothing that prevents public servants from doing the same -- except of course that they're underpaid and diminishing in number, thanks to austerity policies. The bargain which is making here is: 1. Reduce taxes / enforcement of taxes on large corporations 2. De-fund and generally decrease the quality of public service 3. Shift the burden of responsibility for providing said services onto said large corporations, who now provide a facsimile of the commons, minus inconvenient concepts like civil rights (right to assemble, speech, etc). 4. Use people's growing discontent with public services to argue for lower taxes. Go back to 1 and repeat. This is then propped up by a "Broken Britain" narrative like your own, which is, forgive the bluntness, tabloid-fueled bullshit. Despite the the government's diligent efforts to undermine public services, London remains one of the cleanest and cities on the planet, and is certainly doing better than at any point in its history.
throwanem 9y ago
Which parks?
- patorjk 9y ago
  I made a reply up above, but the best example I have is Ferry Bar Park (pic I took here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/24766355732/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/24766355732/). Another is Fort Armistead Park, which is probably my favorite park to take sunrise photos in (examples: https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/25705211566/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/25705211566/, https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/30999597372/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/30999597372/), but the place is an appalling dump, you can find some reviews of it here: https://www.yelp.com/biz/fort-armistead-park-baltimore https://www.yelp.com/biz/fort-armistead-park-baltimore Round Falls, while not an official park, is an open area along the Jones Falls trail that runs through Baltimore that is in complete disarray (see http://thebaltimorechop.com/2012/06/26/round-falls/ http://thebaltimorechop.com/2012/06/26/round-falls/). Riverside Park was also pretty dirty when I visited, though it has good reviews online, so maybe I went on an off day.

TACIXAT 9y ago

Oh Baltimore. The park I walk in every morning has a dog park with no signs. They just put up fences, didn't announce it. I really appreciate having that off leash area everyday for my dogs, but they could market it a little better. (This is technically in Baltimore county.) They have trash cans in the dog park but no one was collecting them. I had to flag down the trashmen a few days ago and ask them what needed to happen for them to get it. They thought the dog park was a locked area. A lot of the nicer streets in the more neglected areas are nice because residents go out and pick up the trash. I've given people shit who I've seen littering in my neighborhood, but at the same time, there aren't trash cans on every corner for them to use.

michaelmrose 9y ago
You know what I do when there are no trash cans? I carry it around with me until there are. I have walked 3 miles through residential areas carrying a damn can so screw the assholes littering.
- ensiferum 9y ago
  +1 I do exactly the same. If everyone was like you or I there'd be no litter anywhere. What especially irritates me are smokers throwing their rubbish everywhere. Why is practically every smoker a full on retard?

matt4077 9y ago

Public spaces aren't anarchist lands of lawlessness. Cities can and do prohibit uses that have a negative impact on the space or other visitors. They can also invest in up keeping, and there are many examples of public spaces that rival anything private. New York's Central Park comes to mind, or Yellowstone. But at the end of the day, US citizen always seem to agree when asked if taxes are too high and the government is wasteful, and that opinion does not correlate with actual taxation or spending. The result is the decay of public property. A nice comparison that I recently came across, illustrating the last point: The government spends just about half as much on IT per office worker compared to the private sector.

djmobley 9y ago
In London there is a wide array of low level nuisance and antisocial behaviour that the authorities are unwilling/unable to tackle. Drug dealing and use, drinking on the street, prostitues loitering, homeless people begging, women being catcalled and harassed, groups of youths congregating, littering, etc. are all commonplace in truly public spaces. Many of these 'pseudo-public spaces' (think Granary Square, More London, Canary Wharf) are enormously popular with families and businesspeople precisely because they have security personnel who do a good job of tackling these things.
- nkoren 9y ago
  Good grief, which London do you live in? I've lived here for nine years, mostly in Brixton and Bermondsey. > Drug dealing and use Barely visible compared to virtually every other city I've been to > prostitues loitering Haven't been a thing in London for a decade, from what people tell me. Certainly never seen it. Evidently that business has moved wholly online. > homeless people begging A fraction of what it is in any comparable American city -- but certainly on the rise in recent years due to Tory policies. > women being catcalled and harassed This is definitely an actual problem. > groups of youths congregating Good grief, how is this even a problem? They're citizens and that's their right. A city which helps young people to congregate is doing its job. More power to them, provided they behave well. > littering Yes, that's sometimes a problem. Not so much associated with youth, in my experience: yobs come in all ages. > Many of these 'pseudo-public spaces' (think Granary > Square, More London, Canary Wharf) are enormously popular > with families and businesspeople precisely because they > have security personnel who do a good job of tackling > these things. There's nothing that prevents public servants from doing the same -- except of course that they're underpaid and diminishing in number, thanks to austerity policies. The bargain which is making here is: 1. Reduce taxes / enforcement of taxes on large corporations 2. De-fund and generally decrease the quality of public service 3. Shift the burden of responsibility for providing said services onto said large corporations, who now provide a facsimile of the commons, minus inconvenient concepts like civil rights (right to assemble, speech, etc). 4. Use people's growing discontent with public services to argue for lower taxes. Go back to 1 and repeat. This is then propped up by a "Broken Britain" narrative like your own, which is, forgive the bluntness, tabloid-fueled bullshit. Despite the the government's diligent efforts to undermine public services, London remains one of the cleanest and cities on the planet, and is certainly doing better than at any point in its history.

throwanem 9y ago

Which parks?

patorjk 9y ago
I made a reply up above, but the best example I have is Ferry Bar Park (pic I took here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/24766355732/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/24766355732/). Another is Fort Armistead Park, which is probably my favorite park to take sunrise photos in (examples: https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/25705211566/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/25705211566/, https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/30999597372/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/40423570@N07/30999597372/), but the place is an appalling dump, you can find some reviews of it here: https://www.yelp.com/biz/fort-armistead-park-baltimore https://www.yelp.com/biz/fort-armistead-park-baltimore Round Falls, while not an official park, is an open area along the Jones Falls trail that runs through Baltimore that is in complete disarray (see http://thebaltimorechop.com/2012/06/26/round-falls/ http://thebaltimorechop.com/2012/06/26/round-falls/). Riverside Park was also pretty dirty when I visited, though it has good reviews online, so maybe I went on an off day.