5 ms·

It's got HN hype and a lot of the negatives that come with that (awful learning materials by people who haven't used it in production) and a decent amount of re

It's got HN hype and a lot of the negatives that come with that (awful learning materials by people who haven't used it in production) and a decent amount of real world use though nothing major for now.

lukeasrodgers 9y ago
I believe Discord uses Elixir, and I think that counts as "major."
- raphy 9y ago
  It is also used by Pinterest and Square Enix, as they both open sourced some of the tools they use.
- oomem 9y ago
  Yes, and they wrote some interesting blog posts about it: https://blog.discordapp.com/scaling-elixir-f9b8e1e7c29b https://blog.discordapp.com/scaling-elixir-f9b8e1e7c29b https://blog.discordapp.com/how-discord-handles-push-request-bursts-of-over-a-million-per-minute-with-elixirs-genstage-8f899f0221b4 https://blog.discordapp.com/how-discord-handles-push-request...
- brightball 9y ago
  Love Discord
pmarreck 9y ago
Also, Bleacher Report is a pretty large site on it: http://www.techworld.com/apps-wearables/how-elixir-helped-bleacher-report-handle-8x-more-traffic-3653957/ http://www.techworld.com/apps-wearables/how-elixir-helped-bl... They went from 150 Rails servers to 5 BEAM servers "and could probably get away with two" (!)
- mmgutz 9y ago
  This seems to be the dominant use case for Elixir; migrate legacy Rails code to Elixir. When deciding between Go and Elixir for our startup I looked at both ecosystems. Go was significantly ahead in all categories: traction, articles on the web, packages on git, git activity, editor support ... I don't regret choosing Go but I always keep an eye out on Elixir. Pattern matching, pipe operator, immutability, supervisors ... I can only dream about that in Go.
  - pmarreck 9y ago
    I LOVE the pattern-matching/deconstruction/guards stuff. It eliminates SO much boilerplate logic. Just the function head of an Elixir function eliminates a dozen input validation and assignment lines in most other languages. It wouldn't be nearly as spectacular if it didn't pervade the entire language, though (for example, I'm sure you could get partway there in many other languages using a DSL) Same thing with immutability. If it doesn't pervade the entire language, it feels slapped-on, and you basically lose most (all?) of the guarantees (like removing an entire class of bugs caused by mutability). I saw what you saw in Go, but in doing my homework, I also saw an astonishing amount of ugliness[1][2][3], and additionally I took a bit of actual offense to the core philosophy of Go's design as stated by Rob Pike himself[4][5] so I am betting on (hoping for?) spectacular Elixir adoption I guess lol, as my current and all future projects for the foreseeable future will be in Elixir. About the only wart I've seen so far in Elixir is the pin operator[6], but that was necessary to preserve the name-rebinding ability in a pattern-matching context, and it stops seeming like a wart fairly quickly, once you realize why it's necessary. [1] https://anvaka.github.io/common-words/#?lang=go https://anvaka.github.io/common-words/#?lang=go makes it seem like 50% of the day-to-day code in the language is error-checking due to the lack of exceptions [2] https://github.com/ksimka/go-is-not-good https://github.com/ksimka/go-is-not-good [3] http://byrd.im/go-is-poor/ http://byrd.im/go-is-poor/ [4] http://nomad.so/2015/03/why-gos-design-is-a-disservice-to-intelligent-programmers/ http://nomad.so/2015/03/why-gos-design-is-a-disservice-to-in... [5] I'm actually a fan of Plan9 and appreciate Rob Pike's work on that [6] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27971357/what-is-the-pin-operator-for-and-are-elixir-variables-mutable#27975233 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27971357/what-is-the-pin...
- hota_mazi 9y ago
  To be fair, if you're running Rails, any different choice of technology will yield huge performance improvements.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - lod723 9y ago
    For an improvement of 2 orders of magnitude while maintaining the same level of developer complexity, I'm hard pressed to think of any other web framework besides Phoenix that can deliver this.
    - hota_mazi 9y ago
      Java and C# easily outclass Phoenix i performances, if only because they are statically typed, but also because they run on VM's that are more advanced (and admittedly older, so more optimized) than BEAM.
      - OvermindDL1 9y ago
        Java and C# outclass performance in raw CPU work certainly. Phoenix does not do raw CPU work however, it is primarily a web dispatcher on top of cowboy and the BEAM will run circles around both Java and C# systems if they are programmed to anywhere near the same quality of failure handling that the BEAM implicitly supplies (/me has worked with both Java and the BEAM for over 10 years). Also, the Erlang VM is older than the JVM, initially created in the late 1980's. The JVM, according to wikipedia, was introduced in 1994. Also the BEAM has significantly better GC handling that both the JVM and .NET both since it has a segmented memory model (each actor has segmented memory) unlike the JVM and .NET's monolithic Heap's, this allows it to perform vast optimizations that ensure that the GC is almost never called yet memory is properly and fully reclaimed due to the bounds of the individual Actor heaps, and even when the GC is called it does not stop-the-world or anything of the sort and has multiple layers of GC's that run for specific cases, the system stays running even as the GC's (rarely) runs. The average GC run time even when it does run is measured in the single-digit 'micro'seconds. If anything the BEAM VM is not only just much older than the JVM and .NET VM's, but also more advanced.
sb8244 9y ago
Isn't that just a timing issue? Why chalk it up to HN immediately when it's more likely to be the general interest in the language increasing and more people using it for less time are writing about it? This is a good thing as these people will probably lead the future for its use.
- sotojuan 9y ago
  It's just the name I give to languages or tools that get big online and generate a lot blog posts and shoddy learning material. Though most of the time it does start with HN. BTW I love Elixir and I'm happy to see it grow. Nothing bad about HN hype it just has its positives and negatives.
qaq 9y ago
bet365 is major.

lukeasrodgers 9y ago

I believe Discord uses Elixir, and I think that counts as "major."

raphy 9y ago
It is also used by Pinterest and Square Enix, as they both open sourced some of the tools they use.
oomem 9y ago
Yes, and they wrote some interesting blog posts about it: https://blog.discordapp.com/scaling-elixir-f9b8e1e7c29b https://blog.discordapp.com/scaling-elixir-f9b8e1e7c29b https://blog.discordapp.com/how-discord-handles-push-request-bursts-of-over-a-million-per-minute-with-elixirs-genstage-8f899f0221b4 https://blog.discordapp.com/how-discord-handles-push-request...
brightball 9y ago
Love Discord

pmarreck 9y ago

Also, Bleacher Report is a pretty large site on it: http://www.techworld.com/apps-wearables/how-elixir-helped-bleacher-report-handle-8x-more-traffic-3653957/ http://www.techworld.com/apps-wearables/how-elixir-helped-bl... They went from 150 Rails servers to 5 BEAM servers "and could probably get away with two" (!)

mmgutz 9y ago
This seems to be the dominant use case for Elixir; migrate legacy Rails code to Elixir. When deciding between Go and Elixir for our startup I looked at both ecosystems. Go was significantly ahead in all categories: traction, articles on the web, packages on git, git activity, editor support ... I don't regret choosing Go but I always keep an eye out on Elixir. Pattern matching, pipe operator, immutability, supervisors ... I can only dream about that in Go.
- pmarreck 9y ago
  I LOVE the pattern-matching/deconstruction/guards stuff. It eliminates SO much boilerplate logic. Just the function head of an Elixir function eliminates a dozen input validation and assignment lines in most other languages. It wouldn't be nearly as spectacular if it didn't pervade the entire language, though (for example, I'm sure you could get partway there in many other languages using a DSL) Same thing with immutability. If it doesn't pervade the entire language, it feels slapped-on, and you basically lose most (all?) of the guarantees (like removing an entire class of bugs caused by mutability). I saw what you saw in Go, but in doing my homework, I also saw an astonishing amount of ugliness[1][2][3], and additionally I took a bit of actual offense to the core philosophy of Go's design as stated by Rob Pike himself[4][5] so I am betting on (hoping for?) spectacular Elixir adoption I guess lol, as my current and all future projects for the foreseeable future will be in Elixir. About the only wart I've seen so far in Elixir is the pin operator[6], but that was necessary to preserve the name-rebinding ability in a pattern-matching context, and it stops seeming like a wart fairly quickly, once you realize why it's necessary. [1] https://anvaka.github.io/common-words/#?lang=go https://anvaka.github.io/common-words/#?lang=go makes it seem like 50% of the day-to-day code in the language is error-checking due to the lack of exceptions [2] https://github.com/ksimka/go-is-not-good https://github.com/ksimka/go-is-not-good [3] http://byrd.im/go-is-poor/ http://byrd.im/go-is-poor/ [4] http://nomad.so/2015/03/why-gos-design-is-a-disservice-to-intelligent-programmers/ http://nomad.so/2015/03/why-gos-design-is-a-disservice-to-in... [5] I'm actually a fan of Plan9 and appreciate Rob Pike's work on that [6] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27971357/what-is-the-pin-operator-for-and-are-elixir-variables-mutable#27975233 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27971357/what-is-the-pin...
hota_mazi 9y ago
To be fair, if you're running Rails, any different choice of technology will yield huge performance improvements.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lod723 9y ago
  For an improvement of 2 orders of magnitude while maintaining the same level of developer complexity, I'm hard pressed to think of any other web framework besides Phoenix that can deliver this.
  - hota_mazi 9y ago
    Java and C# easily outclass Phoenix i performances, if only because they are statically typed, but also because they run on VM's that are more advanced (and admittedly older, so more optimized) than BEAM.
    - OvermindDL1 9y ago
      Java and C# outclass performance in raw CPU work certainly. Phoenix does not do raw CPU work however, it is primarily a web dispatcher on top of cowboy and the BEAM will run circles around both Java and C# systems if they are programmed to anywhere near the same quality of failure handling that the BEAM implicitly supplies (/me has worked with both Java and the BEAM for over 10 years). Also, the Erlang VM is older than the JVM, initially created in the late 1980's. The JVM, according to wikipedia, was introduced in 1994. Also the BEAM has significantly better GC handling that both the JVM and .NET both since it has a segmented memory model (each actor has segmented memory) unlike the JVM and .NET's monolithic Heap's, this allows it to perform vast optimizations that ensure that the GC is almost never called yet memory is properly and fully reclaimed due to the bounds of the individual Actor heaps, and even when the GC is called it does not stop-the-world or anything of the sort and has multiple layers of GC's that run for specific cases, the system stays running even as the GC's (rarely) runs. The average GC run time even when it does run is measured in the single-digit 'micro'seconds. If anything the BEAM VM is not only just much older than the JVM and .NET VM's, but also more advanced.

sb8244 9y ago

Isn't that just a timing issue? Why chalk it up to HN immediately when it's more likely to be the general interest in the language increasing and more people using it for less time are writing about it? This is a good thing as these people will probably lead the future for its use.

sotojuan 9y ago
It's just the name I give to languages or tools that get big online and generate a lot blog posts and shoddy learning material. Though most of the time it does start with HN. BTW I love Elixir and I'm happy to see it grow. Nothing bad about HN hype it just has its positives and negatives.

qaq 9y ago

bet365 is major.