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This is demonstrably false, because otherwise the logical conclusion is to do everything yourself. Including growing your own food. The entire premise of marke

by UK-AL 9y ago

This is demonstrably false, because otherwise the logical conclusion is to do everything yourself. Including growing your own food. The entire premise of market economies is that people are better at different things and by working together you get a higher aggregate amount of value. I.e Get more stuff with less resources spent(which includes time) If it didn't work. Market economies wouldn't work. Are your perhaps not including the efficiency of the worker in your calculations? Mechanic could probably change the brakes on a car without even thinking about it, you would probably take a hour of research and work grabbing the right replacement before you even start. Most farmers have a large of agricultural knowledge which allows them produce food cheaply in large quantities.

grecy 9y ago
> because otherwise the logical conclusion is to do everything yourself The logical conclusion is to do as much as you can yourself, and only get others to do things you are unable to do yourself. Where possible, don't use the work/income/tax/payment cycle to do it, try to use bartering or something more efficient where there are not so many middle-men taking a cut. > The entire premise of market economies is that people are better at different things and by working together you get a higher aggregate amount of value Ah-ha, you're right - but it doesn't create "higher value" for the individual worker.. it's higher value for those at the top of the pyramid. > If it didn't work. Market economies wouldn't work. Again, you are right, they don't work! The rich are getting vastly richer while the workers are getting vastly poorer. Look around you. You might not have noticed, but the reason everyone goes to work every day for their entire lives is NOT because it's the most efficient or smartest thing for them to do. It's because they have been convinced that it is, and they are chasing the carrot dangling on a stick in front of them (house, car, new iPhone, etc.) >Mechanic could probably change the brakes on a car without even thinking about it, you would probably take a few hours research before you even start. I can tell you have never tried. Even the first time I did it I took less than an hour (inc research), and actually it would still have been "cheaper" even if it took 8+ hours (I was earning ~$70k as salary, mechanics where I live start at $145/hr)
- UK-AL 9y ago
  I defiantly earn more than say the pay for my cleaner even after a tax. I could prepare all my meals, but I've done the work I've worked that it defiantly pays more just to buy them. I've done the calculations, and for me its defiantly more time efficient. I think your picking a particular inefficient example. Mechanics where I live don't earn that much at all. I could service my car which for me would take me most of my day. My daily pay rate could defiantly pay for a full service after tax. What i'm seeing here is that you just need to figure out what per hour rate is after tax, and use that to make quick calculations based on your local market. "they are chasing the carrot dangling on a stick in front of them (house, car, new iPhone, etc.)" - Not everyone is like that. I have a cheap small car, a cheap smartphone, house that requires low maintenance I then plough the savings into services which I means I have more time and less stress. Then the rest goes into retirement funds and cheap vanguard funds. If anything however its made my life a bit boring but very comfortable and laidback.
  - grecy 9y ago
    > What i'm seeing here is that you just need to figure out what per hour rate is after tax, and use that to make quick calculations based on your local market. Yep, it's a whole chapter in the book I wrote on the topic of working less to live your dreams. The other thing to realize is that when you are spending money, you are spending the time you have left in your life. You can never, ever get that time back, so spending should be very precious. It's quite a mind-shift, but once you make it you'll never be able to go back.
    - wruza 9y ago
      All that seems to be a philosophy, not a fact. Obviously, when I'm spending my hour equivalent on full featured dinner, I'm saving myself around five hours, not even comparing quality and extra time to achieve it. That's how competence and production lines basically work.
- atomashpolskiy 9y ago
  > The logical conclusion is to do as much as you can yourself, and only get others to do things you are unable to do yourself. I think there's also a social/psychological aspect to this. When people pay for something that they are unable to do/produce by themselves, they feel (or at least should feel, from the society's point of view) some respect for the person doing the job, because he is a specialist with some non-trivial skills. In contrast, when people pay for something that they can do (or at least think that they can) but don't like to, they feel sympathy at best, or superiority and disdain at worst, because the job doer is now perceived more as a servant.
bdushabfjjsh 9y ago
Why would the answer be so absolute? Shouldn't this calculation just shift the break even point where it makes sense to do things yourself to somewhere where you do more things yourself?

by UK-AL 9y ago

grecy 9y ago

> because otherwise the logical conclusion is to do everything yourself The logical conclusion is to do as much as you can yourself, and only get others to do things you are unable to do yourself. Where possible, don't use the work/income/tax/payment cycle to do it, try to use bartering or something more efficient where there are not so many middle-men taking a cut. > The entire premise of market economies is that people are better at different things and by working together you get a higher aggregate amount of value Ah-ha, you're right - but it doesn't create "higher value" for the individual worker.. it's higher value for those at the top of the pyramid. > If it didn't work. Market economies wouldn't work. Again, you are right, they don't work! The rich are getting vastly richer while the workers are getting vastly poorer. Look around you. You might not have noticed, but the reason everyone goes to work every day for their entire lives is NOT because it's the most efficient or smartest thing for them to do. It's because they have been convinced that it is, and they are chasing the carrot dangling on a stick in front of them (house, car, new iPhone, etc.) >Mechanic could probably change the brakes on a car without even thinking about it, you would probably take a few hours research before you even start. I can tell you have never tried. Even the first time I did it I took less than an hour (inc research), and actually it would still have been "cheaper" even if it took 8+ hours (I was earning ~$70k as salary, mechanics where I live start at $145/hr)

UK-AL 9y ago
I defiantly earn more than say the pay for my cleaner even after a tax. I could prepare all my meals, but I've done the work I've worked that it defiantly pays more just to buy them. I've done the calculations, and for me its defiantly more time efficient. I think your picking a particular inefficient example. Mechanics where I live don't earn that much at all. I could service my car which for me would take me most of my day. My daily pay rate could defiantly pay for a full service after tax. What i'm seeing here is that you just need to figure out what per hour rate is after tax, and use that to make quick calculations based on your local market. "they are chasing the carrot dangling on a stick in front of them (house, car, new iPhone, etc.)" - Not everyone is like that. I have a cheap small car, a cheap smartphone, house that requires low maintenance I then plough the savings into services which I means I have more time and less stress. Then the rest goes into retirement funds and cheap vanguard funds. If anything however its made my life a bit boring but very comfortable and laidback.
- grecy 9y ago
  > What i'm seeing here is that you just need to figure out what per hour rate is after tax, and use that to make quick calculations based on your local market. Yep, it's a whole chapter in the book I wrote on the topic of working less to live your dreams. The other thing to realize is that when you are spending money, you are spending the time you have left in your life. You can never, ever get that time back, so spending should be very precious. It's quite a mind-shift, but once you make it you'll never be able to go back.
  - wruza 9y ago
    All that seems to be a philosophy, not a fact. Obviously, when I'm spending my hour equivalent on full featured dinner, I'm saving myself around five hours, not even comparing quality and extra time to achieve it. That's how competence and production lines basically work.
atomashpolskiy 9y ago
> The logical conclusion is to do as much as you can yourself, and only get others to do things you are unable to do yourself. I think there's also a social/psychological aspect to this. When people pay for something that they are unable to do/produce by themselves, they feel (or at least should feel, from the society's point of view) some respect for the person doing the job, because he is a specialist with some non-trivial skills. In contrast, when people pay for something that they can do (or at least think that they can) but don't like to, they feel sympathy at best, or superiority and disdain at worst, because the job doer is now perceived more as a servant.

bdushabfjjsh 9y ago

Why would the answer be so absolute? Shouldn't this calculation just shift the break even point where it makes sense to do things yourself to somewhere where you do more things yourself?