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I have no idea what these guys do. They don't even take the time to explain it. The fact that these guys can run an ICO and call $8.7 million dollars miniscule

by Axsuul 9y ago

I have no idea what these guys do. They don't even take the time to explain it. The fact that these guys can run an ICO and call $8.7 million dollars miniscule is what's wrong with ICOs today. This just looks like another run-of-the-mill ICO backed by convoluted, cryptospeak that one can only pretend they know what they actually intend to build [2][3] Even the investors sound sketchy. Why does no one even challenge their business model? [1] I'm willing to bet this hack was an inside job. [1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887061.0 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887061.0 [2] https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By5WJsM3KjltOG https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By5WJsM3KjltOG [3] http://veritas.veritaseum.com/ http://veritas.veritaseum.com/

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
grafporno 9y ago
> J. K. Rowling has said that Veritaserum "works best upon the unsuspecting, the vulnerable and those insufficiently skilled (in one way or another) to protect themselves against it... http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Veritaserum http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Veritaserum Hmmm.
- richardknop 9y ago
  So even the name had a hidden scam reference in it. This seems so dodgy now.
  - cvsh 9y ago
    Or maybe they just mashed together the Latin word for 'truth' with 'Ethereum' and the etymology of Veritaserum is coincidentally covergent evolution
    - richardknop 9y ago
      Honestly you're probably right. They wouldn't be so brazen if they planned to steal money from the beginning. But nothing would surprise me in crypto anymore.
      - mygo 9y ago
        Hey, I have to disagree here. Let's look at what we know prior art. The best phishing attacks are the ones that are so obvious that only the unsuspecting, the vulnerable and those insufficiently skilled would fall for them.
        ryanlol 9y ago
        This simply isn't true. Those are the worst phishing attacks largely performed by some guy in Africa manually sending emails.
  - philh 9y ago
    Even if the name references Veritaserum, Veritaserum isn't particularly associated with scams. Far more likely they'd be trying to associate with its truth-finding properties. The quoted line is amusing, but no more.
- EGreg 9y ago
  Maybe it wasn't stolen, this was part of the plan to do nothing after the raise :)
Mefis 9y ago
It's absurd. I went through all their website and still don't know what they do.
richardknop 9y ago
I think inside jobs are likely in a large number of these ICO hacks. It's a good way to just enjoy the millions of dollars (or tens of millions) you raised for a non existent product just based on a flashy website with crypto buzzwords. Most of these products I have taken look at make no sense and truly just seem to be a bunch of crypto and tech buzzwords mixed together to make it sound like some real business plan (e.g. "decentralise", "blockchain", "trustless", "distributed", "peer-to-peer"). It makes sense to "get hacked" and be able to just walk away with the money without having to pretend you actually want to create and deliver a product.
- philipov 9y ago
  At least we can say that 'trustless' is a real part of the plan, one way or another.
dsacco 9y ago
It's surreal. If a legal hammer doesn't come down on ICOs and smart contracts soon, it's simply going to be rational to either hack other parties' smart contracts or start ICOs just to get "hacked." I don't really see a downside right now, aside from ethics. It doesn't seem like any of the hackers have been prosecuted or even lost the coins. They can just slowly tumble them and...move on with their lives, newly rich. I mean I really don't see how this is sustainable. Incentives for not doing this are rapidly evaporating, which will create systemic instability and erode confidence in the currency. But in the meantime you can acquire a fortune in what seems like a pretty straightforward, low risk way.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  I keep bringing up the example of Bitcoin exchanges and wallets. In the first few years, there were constant hacks and scams (with wallets). Due to the global nature of Bitcoin, there was no effective way to regulate it, so this state of affairs continued until consumers and the ecosystem in general finally became wise, and avoided exchanges unless they met certain conditions (e.g. backed by reputable parties, used security best practices like cold storage) and avoided certain categories of wallets altogether (e.g. web wallets that store consumer coins server side).
  - dsacco 9y ago
    I'm willing to accept that your postulate is true (if I understand it correctly, the thesis is that the market will "mature" and solve these problems). But even if that is true, it doesn't diminish the fact that right now the only thing apparently stopping anyone from becoming rich is ethics, not effort. Normally in situations where there are few effort penalties but high ethics penalties for quickly acquiring a fortune, there is a disincentive in the form of regulation and the judiciary system. That's not the case here! (If it is, correct me if I'm wrong). For example, how many of those fraudulent Bitcoin wallets were prosecuted? The salient example seems to be Mt. Gox, but I feel as though that one was prosecuted because there wasn't much anonymity available to the founder. There doesn't seem to be much of a reason to not try to e.g. exploit a vulnerability in a widely used smart contract. The endgame is millions or tens of millions of dollars, cleaned through a tumbler and then reported to the IRS. "Where did this windfall come from?" "I was an early cryptocurrency investor, I did very well!" As someone who has done a lot of code review over the years and read more bug bounty reports than I can count, I can very easily see this becoming the de facto activity of unscrupulous security researchers until the market undergoes the improvement you speak of. I guess to put my point more succinctly: it seems somewhat unprecedented to me how easy it is to do this and simply get away with it. A commenter on Hacker News was able to pinpoint the Parity Multisig vulnerability - it's not like it necessarily required a team of people and 6 months.
mannykannot 9y ago
> I have no idea what these guys do. It looks like the South Sea Bubble, but with cryptocurrency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company
runeks 9y ago
I found some more detailed information on a historic page: https://web.archive.org/web/20150616092334/http://veritaseum.com/?reqp=1&reqr= https://web.archive.org/web/20150616092334/http://veritaseum... https://web.archive.org/web/20150616092334/http://veritaseum.com/?reqp=1&reqr= https://web.archive.org/web/20150616092334/http://veritaseum... > Veritaseum uses only bitcoin, and subsists completely on the bitcoin blockchain. It is the only bitcoin wallet system that can trade simple and complex value structures without using non-bitcoin tokens, alt coins, sidechains or alternative blockchains. It can trade the value of over 45,000 tickers in all asset classes, from major exchanges from all around the world. At it’s essence, Veritaseum is a hyper-intelligent Bitcoin wallet “system” that is able to create and interpret smart contracts through the blockchain. It coordinates with an Oracle to gain access to conventional, physical and legacy financial data and information and uses it to price, value, trade and settle OTC, P2P financial instruments - all in BTC. I would be surprised if they -- now, two years later -- have actually demonstrate this "system" in use publicly.
rev_null 9y ago
If 0.07% of their company is really worth $8.7m, then the company itself is worth $12 billion. That seems pretty impressive for a company that, from what I can tell, does nothing and has no product.
aws_ls 9y ago
"That is in addtion to our Veritizing a medical practice as a showcase for doctors and healthcare biz pros around the world to emulate (using Veritas, of course). Think of us just capturing 50 basis points of all of the medical practices and related healthcare businesses in the world " (From [1]) Wow! This in a post announcing the 8M USD hack. And what language he speaks. [1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887061.msg20348125#msg20348125 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887061.msg20348125#...
microwavecamera 9y ago
And what exactly is "Pathogenic Finance"? pathogenic adjective 1. of a bacterium, virus, or other microorganism causing disease.

by Axsuul 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

grafporno 9y ago

> J. K. Rowling has said that Veritaserum "works best upon the unsuspecting, the vulnerable and those insufficiently skilled (in one way or another) to protect themselves against it... http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Veritaserum http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Veritaserum Hmmm.

richardknop 9y ago
So even the name had a hidden scam reference in it. This seems so dodgy now.
- cvsh 9y ago
  Or maybe they just mashed together the Latin word for 'truth' with 'Ethereum' and the etymology of Veritaserum is coincidentally covergent evolution
  - richardknop 9y ago
    Honestly you're probably right. They wouldn't be so brazen if they planned to steal money from the beginning. But nothing would surprise me in crypto anymore.
    - mygo 9y ago
      Hey, I have to disagree here. Let's look at what we know prior art. The best phishing attacks are the ones that are so obvious that only the unsuspecting, the vulnerable and those insufficiently skilled would fall for them.
      - ryanlol 9y ago
        This simply isn't true. Those are the worst phishing attacks largely performed by some guy in Africa manually sending emails.
- philh 9y ago
  Even if the name references Veritaserum, Veritaserum isn't particularly associated with scams. Far more likely they'd be trying to associate with its truth-finding properties. The quoted line is amusing, but no more.
EGreg 9y ago
Maybe it wasn't stolen, this was part of the plan to do nothing after the raise :)

Mefis 9y ago

It's absurd. I went through all their website and still don't know what they do.

richardknop 9y ago

I think inside jobs are likely in a large number of these ICO hacks. It's a good way to just enjoy the millions of dollars (or tens of millions) you raised for a non existent product just based on a flashy website with crypto buzzwords. Most of these products I have taken look at make no sense and truly just seem to be a bunch of crypto and tech buzzwords mixed together to make it sound like some real business plan (e.g. "decentralise", "blockchain", "trustless", "distributed", "peer-to-peer"). It makes sense to "get hacked" and be able to just walk away with the money without having to pretend you actually want to create and deliver a product.

philipov 9y ago
At least we can say that 'trustless' is a real part of the plan, one way or another.

dsacco 9y ago

It's surreal. If a legal hammer doesn't come down on ICOs and smart contracts soon, it's simply going to be rational to either hack other parties' smart contracts or start ICOs just to get "hacked." I don't really see a downside right now, aside from ethics. It doesn't seem like any of the hackers have been prosecuted or even lost the coins. They can just slowly tumble them and...move on with their lives, newly rich. I mean I really don't see how this is sustainable. Incentives for not doing this are rapidly evaporating, which will create systemic instability and erode confidence in the currency. But in the meantime you can acquire a fortune in what seems like a pretty straightforward, low risk way.

Jabanga 9y ago
I keep bringing up the example of Bitcoin exchanges and wallets. In the first few years, there were constant hacks and scams (with wallets). Due to the global nature of Bitcoin, there was no effective way to regulate it, so this state of affairs continued until consumers and the ecosystem in general finally became wise, and avoided exchanges unless they met certain conditions (e.g. backed by reputable parties, used security best practices like cold storage) and avoided certain categories of wallets altogether (e.g. web wallets that store consumer coins server side).
- dsacco 9y ago
  I'm willing to accept that your postulate is true (if I understand it correctly, the thesis is that the market will "mature" and solve these problems). But even if that is true, it doesn't diminish the fact that right now the only thing apparently stopping anyone from becoming rich is ethics, not effort. Normally in situations where there are few effort penalties but high ethics penalties for quickly acquiring a fortune, there is a disincentive in the form of regulation and the judiciary system. That's not the case here! (If it is, correct me if I'm wrong). For example, how many of those fraudulent Bitcoin wallets were prosecuted? The salient example seems to be Mt. Gox, but I feel as though that one was prosecuted because there wasn't much anonymity available to the founder. There doesn't seem to be much of a reason to not try to e.g. exploit a vulnerability in a widely used smart contract. The endgame is millions or tens of millions of dollars, cleaned through a tumbler and then reported to the IRS. "Where did this windfall come from?" "I was an early cryptocurrency investor, I did very well!" As someone who has done a lot of code review over the years and read more bug bounty reports than I can count, I can very easily see this becoming the de facto activity of unscrupulous security researchers until the market undergoes the improvement you speak of. I guess to put my point more succinctly: it seems somewhat unprecedented to me how easy it is to do this and simply get away with it. A commenter on Hacker News was able to pinpoint the Parity Multisig vulnerability - it's not like it necessarily required a team of people and 6 months.

mannykannot 9y ago

> I have no idea what these guys do. It looks like the South Sea Bubble, but with cryptocurrency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company

runeks 9y ago

I found some more detailed information on a historic page: https://web.archive.org/web/20150616092334/http://veritaseum.com/?reqp=1&reqr= https://web.archive.org/web/20150616092334/http://veritaseum... https://web.archive.org/web/20150616092334/http://veritaseum.com/?reqp=1&reqr= https://web.archive.org/web/20150616092334/http://veritaseum... > Veritaseum uses only bitcoin, and subsists completely on the bitcoin blockchain. It is the only bitcoin wallet system that can trade simple and complex value structures without using non-bitcoin tokens, alt coins, sidechains or alternative blockchains. It can trade the value of over 45,000 tickers in all asset classes, from major exchanges from all around the world. At it’s essence, Veritaseum is a hyper-intelligent Bitcoin wallet “system” that is able to create and interpret smart contracts through the blockchain. It coordinates with an Oracle to gain access to conventional, physical and legacy financial data and information and uses it to price, value, trade and settle OTC, P2P financial instruments - all in BTC. I would be surprised if they -- now, two years later -- have actually demonstrate this "system" in use publicly.

rev_null 9y ago

If 0.07% of their company is really worth $8.7m, then the company itself is worth $12 billion. That seems pretty impressive for a company that, from what I can tell, does nothing and has no product.

aws_ls 9y ago

"That is in addtion to our Veritizing a medical practice as a showcase for doctors and healthcare biz pros around the world to emulate (using Veritas, of course). Think of us just capturing 50 basis points of all of the medical practices and related healthcare businesses in the world " (From [1]) Wow! This in a post announcing the 8M USD hack. And what language he speaks. [1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887061.msg20348125#msg20348125 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1887061.msg20348125#...

microwavecamera 9y ago

And what exactly is "Pathogenic Finance"? pathogenic adjective 1. of a bacterium, virus, or other microorganism causing disease.