3 ms·

> I'm confused why you're even bringing this up, since we agree this wouldn't work. > Anything that cuts off all the people on SSI is a non-starter. I didn't r

> I'm confused why you're even bringing this up, since we agree this wouldn't work. > Anything that cuts off all the people on SSI is a non-starter. I didn't realize you were anti-UBI altogether. Is this the only reason you are anti-UBI then? But no ideas on how to improve it? And you believe the current welfare complex is superior? Regardless, I would argue that even with an X-year rule to curb UBI-related immigration, a UBI would be vastly superior to our current system. If the income is truly basic, you have not significantly adjusted demand in the economy against what is already being purchased (to raise prices, as you mentioned) in the "necessity" category, specifically, and the reduced welfare in other areas may actually serve to bring artificial demand down in some cases (e.g. instead of feeling obligated to spend all of your food stamps because you can't use them for something else, people may be more focused on what they need). Yes, the currently homeless will also have money to compete with immigrants for inexpensive housing, but I don't think the formerly homeless would be complaining about that. Will it be harder to be an immigrant than a US citizen? Yes, that has and will always be the case for numerous reasons -- however, I don't think the financial effect of a UBI creates this unlivable economy you describe, and it provides a bright future to look forward to. Always looking at ways to refine my policy ideas, so thank you for pointing out how extreme 18 years is given how long it already takes to become a citizen. However, it's always nice to see complaints that follow up with proposed solutions, which is unfortunately uncommon on HN political threads.

klodolph 9y ago
> I didn't realize you were anti-UBI altogether. I'm still not sure where you're getting these conclusions about what my position is, especially when I say things like "I'm interested in UBI" which contradict it. If you have a question about my position just ask, if you don't care then don't respond, but I feel like I'm talking to Eliza. What we seem to agree on is that "just give citizens money" doesn't work. > And you believe the current welfare complex is superior? Superior to what? It's hard to even compare something that exists in all its complexity with something that is just an idea you could write down on a napkin. How do you even evaluate a UBI proposal that doesn't have numbers in it? One complaint here is that people who currently receive SSI should not be dropped by the new system. Rules like "you must be a US citizen for 18 years" are simply unworkable. > however, I don't think the financial effect of a UBI creates this unlivable economy you describe, and it provides a bright future to look forward to. It's already hard to be an immigrant, such a system would mean that immigrants get paid significantly less than non-immigrants. I am not interested in a system that deincentivizes immigration that severely. And again, it's hard to evaluate the potential effects a proposal without numbers or quantitative analysis, so I can merely say "I disagree" here and there's not much substance available to change my mind. One thing to watch out for in these threads is that sometimes people will dismiss or devalue viewpoints or arguments merely because they do not provide alternative solutions to complex problems. That behavior is nothing more than a transparent attempt to shut arguments down without responding to their content.

klodolph 9y ago

> I didn't realize you were anti-UBI altogether. I'm still not sure where you're getting these conclusions about what my position is, especially when I say things like "I'm interested in UBI" which contradict it. If you have a question about my position just ask, if you don't care then don't respond, but I feel like I'm talking to Eliza. What we seem to agree on is that "just give citizens money" doesn't work. > And you believe the current welfare complex is superior? Superior to what? It's hard to even compare something that exists in all its complexity with something that is just an idea you could write down on a napkin. How do you even evaluate a UBI proposal that doesn't have numbers in it? One complaint here is that people who currently receive SSI should not be dropped by the new system. Rules like "you must be a US citizen for 18 years" are simply unworkable. > however, I don't think the financial effect of a UBI creates this unlivable economy you describe, and it provides a bright future to look forward to. It's already hard to be an immigrant, such a system would mean that immigrants get paid significantly less than non-immigrants. I am not interested in a system that deincentivizes immigration that severely. And again, it's hard to evaluate the potential effects a proposal without numbers or quantitative analysis, so I can merely say "I disagree" here and there's not much substance available to change my mind. One thing to watch out for in these threads is that sometimes people will dismiss or devalue viewpoints or arguments merely because they do not provide alternative solutions to complex problems. That behavior is nothing more than a transparent attempt to shut arguments down without responding to their content.