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>Although the proposal for the League to accept Esperanto as their working language was accepted by ten delegates, mainly from Asian countries, the French deleg

>Although the proposal for the League to accept Esperanto as their working language was accepted by ten delegates, mainly from Asian countries, the French delegate used his power of veto to block the issue. What an odd thing to veto. Was there a good reason for it, or was it just to preserve the "lingua franca" over a new contender?

wahern 9y ago
At this stage, therefore, the strongest opposition to Esperanto came from France, whose strongly nationalistic government opposed the internationalist aims of Esperanto. French nationalism was expressed, inter alia, in support for the use of French as the international language. Since Versailles, English had threatened the status of French. The League of Nations was officially bilingual, though (with French encouragement) French soon became its dominant language. France was thus hardly likely to favour any kind of threat to the prestige of its language. Source: Forster, Peter (1982). The Esperanto Movement. Page 175. I found the quote using Wikipedia's League of Nations article for a citation and Google Books for the source material. Searching for "strongest opposition" in Google Books should take you straight to the page. I can't figure out how to create a permanent link in Google Books straight to the page that will reliably work for people.
- MattHeard 9y ago
  https://books.google.com/books?id=3LqqGU3p_noC&pg=PA175 https://books.google.com/books?id=3LqqGU3p_noC&pg=PA175 To link to a specific page in a book in Google Books, add the URL parameter "pg=PA<#>" where "<#>" is the page number.
Iv 9y ago
French here. French politicians, and a big part of the population also, are weirdly defensive about using any international language other than French. French is actually used in some international organization: international post (and aviation I think?) as well as diplomacy. That latter one may make some politicians blind to the fact that the game is set: English won as the de facto international language. France could dispute the status of superpower to UK in the time of colonial empires but this time is definitely over, but some are deluded into thinking that we could still dispute the status of English as the predominant language. It is a combination of pride and laziness that makes so many people consider that we should not accept English as an international language. I find it stupid, but it is not a thing that is specific to the far-right nationalists.
- schoen 9y ago
  Aviation uses English, although that was a change from the widespread tradition of using French for international purposes, at least throughout the 19th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_English
- danmaz74 9y ago
  > France could dispute the status of superpower to UK in the time of colonial empires but this time is definitely over, but some are deluded into thinking that we could still dispute the status of English as the predominant language. This is really a pity, as it unnecessarily slowing down EU integration. I hope the newer generations of French understand it.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    In a way, the Brexit may make that easier, since English becomes more neutral among the remaining EU members (there's still Ireland, but they don't pose the threat that the UK did).
- simias 9y ago
  I mostly agree but I think it's a bit simplistic. Languages aren't just a neutral tool, they come with a culture. English is the modern lingua franca not because of some inherent quality of the language but because it's the language of the USA, by far the greatest economic, military and cultural superpower of our times. Do you realize how much power and influence this gives the USA? We have Captain America in theaters, but Captain China and Peru are nowhere to be seen. When's the last time you've seen a company motto in Spanish or Italian? English, I'm Loving It, Just Do It, Think Different. Does it make sense to make English the de-facto standard language for the EU when Ireland is the only country left in it which uses it natively? I'm all for people learning English to facilitate the dialogue between countries and cultures but I think it's very noble and important to strive to preserve diversity, linguistically and culturally. D'un français à un autre, en anglais, sur un forum anglophone.
  - 9y ago
chimeracoder 9y ago
> lingua franca Ironically, the term lingua franca doesn't actually refer to French as many people think, but to the Frankic language Sabir. Sabir was similar to modern Romance languages, but still distinct from them. The language no longer exists, because as it spread across the Mediterranean, it ended up forking and influencing the local languages there instead. Such is typically the fate of common languages.
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  As a Romance language, Sabir cannot be a Frankic language, since the Franks were a Germanic tribe speaking a Germanic language. The wikipedia article notes that by the time of Sabir, "Frank" had turned into a generic term for western Europeans, which makes the term make more sense -- to the Byzantines, Italians and Spaniards were "Franks". Left unexplained is why the Byzantines would refer to Sabir with a phrase in Latin, a language they didn't speak.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > As a Romance language, Sabir cannot be a Frankic language, since the Franks were a Germanic tribe speaking a Germanic language. There should be a comma after "language": "but to the Frankic language, Sabir". As in, lingua franca literally means "the Frankic language", and it referred to Sabir.
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  One of the remarkable things about English is how little it varies from country to country, especially in written form. There is much more variation in how French, Spanish, and Portuguese are spoken and written in different countries.
  - meric 9y ago
    Probably because English only spread from country to country in the past 200 years, and while the others you listed was hundred(s) of years before that. Chinese, which spread across China 2000 years ago, vary a lot from region to region, even more so than the languages you've mentioned.

wahern 9y ago

At this stage, therefore, the strongest opposition to Esperanto came from France, whose strongly nationalistic government opposed the internationalist aims of Esperanto. French nationalism was expressed, inter alia, in support for the use of French as the international language. Since Versailles, English had threatened the status of French. The League of Nations was officially bilingual, though (with French encouragement) French soon became its dominant language. France was thus hardly likely to favour any kind of threat to the prestige of its language. Source: Forster, Peter (1982). The Esperanto Movement. Page 175. I found the quote using Wikipedia's League of Nations article for a citation and Google Books for the source material. Searching for "strongest opposition" in Google Books should take you straight to the page. I can't figure out how to create a permanent link in Google Books straight to the page that will reliably work for people.

MattHeard 9y ago
https://books.google.com/books?id=3LqqGU3p_noC&pg=PA175 https://books.google.com/books?id=3LqqGU3p_noC&pg=PA175 To link to a specific page in a book in Google Books, add the URL parameter "pg=PA<#>" where "<#>" is the page number.

Iv 9y ago

French here. French politicians, and a big part of the population also, are weirdly defensive about using any international language other than French. French is actually used in some international organization: international post (and aviation I think?) as well as diplomacy. That latter one may make some politicians blind to the fact that the game is set: English won as the de facto international language. France could dispute the status of superpower to UK in the time of colonial empires but this time is definitely over, but some are deluded into thinking that we could still dispute the status of English as the predominant language. It is a combination of pride and laziness that makes so many people consider that we should not accept English as an international language. I find it stupid, but it is not a thing that is specific to the far-right nationalists.

schoen 9y ago
Aviation uses English, although that was a change from the widespread tradition of using French for international purposes, at least throughout the 19th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_English
danmaz74 9y ago
> France could dispute the status of superpower to UK in the time of colonial empires but this time is definitely over, but some are deluded into thinking that we could still dispute the status of English as the predominant language. This is really a pity, as it unnecessarily slowing down EU integration. I hope the newer generations of French understand it.
- icebraining 9y ago
  In a way, the Brexit may make that easier, since English becomes more neutral among the remaining EU members (there's still Ireland, but they don't pose the threat that the UK did).
simias 9y ago
I mostly agree but I think it's a bit simplistic. Languages aren't just a neutral tool, they come with a culture. English is the modern lingua franca not because of some inherent quality of the language but because it's the language of the USA, by far the greatest economic, military and cultural superpower of our times. Do you realize how much power and influence this gives the USA? We have Captain America in theaters, but Captain China and Peru are nowhere to be seen. When's the last time you've seen a company motto in Spanish or Italian? English, I'm Loving It, Just Do It, Think Different. Does it make sense to make English the de-facto standard language for the EU when Ireland is the only country left in it which uses it natively? I'm all for people learning English to facilitate the dialogue between countries and cultures but I think it's very noble and important to strive to preserve diversity, linguistically and culturally. D'un français à un autre, en anglais, sur un forum anglophone.
- 9y ago

chimeracoder 9y ago

> lingua franca Ironically, the term lingua franca doesn't actually refer to French as many people think, but to the Frankic language Sabir. Sabir was similar to modern Romance languages, but still distinct from them. The language no longer exists, because as it spread across the Mediterranean, it ended up forking and influencing the local languages there instead. Such is typically the fate of common languages.

thaumasiotes 9y ago
As a Romance language, Sabir cannot be a Frankic language, since the Franks were a Germanic tribe speaking a Germanic language. The wikipedia article notes that by the time of Sabir, "Frank" had turned into a generic term for western Europeans, which makes the term make more sense -- to the Byzantines, Italians and Spaniards were "Franks". Left unexplained is why the Byzantines would refer to Sabir with a phrase in Latin, a language they didn't speak.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > As a Romance language, Sabir cannot be a Frankic language, since the Franks were a Germanic tribe speaking a Germanic language. There should be a comma after "language": "but to the Frankic language, Sabir". As in, lingua franca literally means "the Frankic language", and it referred to Sabir.
marcoperaza 9y ago
One of the remarkable things about English is how little it varies from country to country, especially in written form. There is much more variation in how French, Spanish, and Portuguese are spoken and written in different countries.
- meric 9y ago
  Probably because English only spread from country to country in the past 200 years, and while the others you listed was hundred(s) of years before that. Chinese, which spread across China 2000 years ago, vary a lot from region to region, even more so than the languages you've mentioned.