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While true, the fact remains that privacy and criminality go hand in hand in this context. And i'd say it's more dangerous for people to censor the truth (that

by darawk 9y ago

While true, the fact remains that privacy and criminality go hand in hand in this context. And i'd say it's more dangerous for people to censor the truth (that 99% of his users were criminals) for fear of how it may be wrongly construed.

mjevans 9y ago
I feel that it is improper for you to make such an unsubstantiated claim. You can state an /opinion/, such as: "I believe the majority of that site's users were probably criminals."
- darawk 9y ago
  You're right. But the owner himself believes the substantial function of his service has been to support criminality, and that's why he's shutting it down.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    Let's be reasonable and word it as "A sizable portion of the service was supporting criminality."
    - mirimir 9y ago
      One could say the same about credit/debit cards, with a suitable definition of "criminality". Charging of interest is illegal under Sharia. Porn and gambling are illegal in some jurisdictions. And so on. Edit: My point is that "criminality" is a meaningless concept without context. Also, it lumps too many things that are clearly distinguishable.
      - FRex 9y ago
        And Amish do not use technology. You are free to get off the site now to not commit a sin in their eyes. People mentioned here are criminals by any reasonable definition of the word: illegal drugs, weapons, ordering hitmen, identity thefts, cc frauds, etc. The linked thread outright mentions few of these as the reason for closure. This isn't some moral dilemma.
        zzzcpan 9y ago
        Look at it this way, almost no bitcoin mixers' users will ever be prosecuted to be called criminals and yet you do call them criminals for no reason. I don't believe there could even be much legitimate use of bitcoin without mixers, people won't be willing to disclose that much information about themselves to everyone in the world.
        FRex 9y ago
        Are you making an argument for or against Bitcoin now? What you basically said is: people who deal in illegal goods using Bitcoin are not criminals because they will never be caught thanks to Bitcoin and mixers. Bitmixer.io guy/girl and others over there call them criminals and say they do illegal things (i.e.: weapons and drugs) using Bitcoin and mixers. Your distinction is really a moot point and being so pedantic serves no one and just looks stupid.
        zzzcpan 9y ago
        You and others are claiming they are criminals, even though they were never prosecuted. People who use those services are not uncaught criminals, this is just government propaganda, they are legitimate users. It's just like with Tor, government agencies want you to believe that it is used mostly for "criminals", but it isn't.
        FRex 9y ago
        Yes, people committing crimes like buying illegal weapons and drugs ARE criminals. Why are you claiming otherwise? Buying illegal goods safely is a legitimate use of bitcoin to you? No one at any point here said EVERYONE using bitcoin and tor are criminals or buying illegal goods. I fell to government propaganda? Which government's? American? Mine? I dislike both. Did the owner of Bitmixer fall to government propaganda too? They could see what their service was used for and decided there was too much sketchy stuff. I support vpn, tor, bitcoin, etc. on principle but I have no idea (and it doesn't change my level of support no matter what the answer is) how much of it is used for legal or illegal but moral (China, dictatorships, etc.) stuff and how much for just crime (guns, drugs, hitmen, fraud, etc.) and I'm pretty sure you don't either. Perhaps you fell to Kool Aid instead and are blind to all the abuse these enabled too?

by darawk 9y ago

mjevans 9y ago

I feel that it is improper for you to make such an unsubstantiated claim. You can state an /opinion/, such as: "I believe the majority of that site's users were probably criminals."

darawk 9y ago
You're right. But the owner himself believes the substantial function of his service has been to support criminality, and that's why he's shutting it down.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Let's be reasonable and word it as "A sizable portion of the service was supporting criminality."
  - mirimir 9y ago
    One could say the same about credit/debit cards, with a suitable definition of "criminality". Charging of interest is illegal under Sharia. Porn and gambling are illegal in some jurisdictions. And so on. Edit: My point is that "criminality" is a meaningless concept without context. Also, it lumps too many things that are clearly distinguishable.
    - FRex 9y ago
      And Amish do not use technology. You are free to get off the site now to not commit a sin in their eyes. People mentioned here are criminals by any reasonable definition of the word: illegal drugs, weapons, ordering hitmen, identity thefts, cc frauds, etc. The linked thread outright mentions few of these as the reason for closure. This isn't some moral dilemma.
      - zzzcpan 9y ago
        Look at it this way, almost no bitcoin mixers' users will ever be prosecuted to be called criminals and yet you do call them criminals for no reason. I don't believe there could even be much legitimate use of bitcoin without mixers, people won't be willing to disclose that much information about themselves to everyone in the world.
        FRex 9y ago
        Are you making an argument for or against Bitcoin now? What you basically said is: people who deal in illegal goods using Bitcoin are not criminals because they will never be caught thanks to Bitcoin and mixers. Bitmixer.io guy/girl and others over there call them criminals and say they do illegal things (i.e.: weapons and drugs) using Bitcoin and mixers. Your distinction is really a moot point and being so pedantic serves no one and just looks stupid.
        zzzcpan 9y ago
        You and others are claiming they are criminals, even though they were never prosecuted. People who use those services are not uncaught criminals, this is just government propaganda, they are legitimate users. It's just like with Tor, government agencies want you to believe that it is used mostly for "criminals", but it isn't.
        FRex 9y ago
        Yes, people committing crimes like buying illegal weapons and drugs ARE criminals. Why are you claiming otherwise? Buying illegal goods safely is a legitimate use of bitcoin to you? No one at any point here said EVERYONE using bitcoin and tor are criminals or buying illegal goods. I fell to government propaganda? Which government's? American? Mine? I dislike both. Did the owner of Bitmixer fall to government propaganda too? They could see what their service was used for and decided there was too much sketchy stuff. I support vpn, tor, bitcoin, etc. on principle but I have no idea (and it doesn't change my level of support no matter what the answer is) how much of it is used for legal or illegal but moral (China, dictatorships, etc.) stuff and how much for just crime (guns, drugs, hitmen, fraud, etc.) and I'm pretty sure you don't either. Perhaps you fell to Kool Aid instead and are blind to all the abuse these enabled too?