3 ms·

Do you have any references to back the statement? I hope we are not talking about some 5 or 10 union leaders richer than middle class entrepreneurs.

conanbatt 9y ago
Its a complex thing to talk about it, because corruption is common currency in Argentina. The top union leaders (teachers, truckers) have virtually unlimited resources. They live in houses and mansions that cost millions of dollars, but they reported income is well below that. They also enjoy special constitutional protections, that makes them almost as hard to arrest as a politician. Their kids are house representatives. They take pictures with the president and campaign with them. They are part of the ruling class. The lower more ideologically "pure" unions constantly denounce how rich they are by selling out their own workers. They manage the medical insurance fund for all employees in their unions, which is a billion dollar fund: several times it was found they cleared out the funds as well as replaced meds and all that (a few lesser union leaders got convicted of this). Argentina is a special place, and one could argue that corruption is a problem at all institutions. But the unions are one more corrupt institution, that can easily start selling out their own, the same way a politican would or a business man could sell out his employees. For me, calling for unions to solve economic problems is like bringing a bear to solve the bee problem.
- owebmaster 9y ago
  I'm asking for references to validate your opinion, not more opinions. If you can't provide solid facts, just say it.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    I dont know what kind of source you'd expect but i can share some articles. A note on union leaders owning million dollar homes: http://www.ambito.com/793963-los-duenos-del-paro-y-de-grandes-riquezas http://www.ambito.com/793963-los-duenos-del-paro-y-de-grande... This is the "most successfull" union leader of argentina phyisically removing the president of the largest private post office: http://www.perfil.com/politica/moyano-fue-a-oca-y-echo-por-la-fuerza-al-dueno-de-la-empresa.phtml http://www.perfil.com/politica/moyano-fue-a-oca-y-echo-por-l... Turns out he owns a post office with thousands of employees. He owns a lot of things, being president of a soccer club and all. He was never anything else but a trucker and a trucker union leader. A note on noteworthy union leaders salaries, ranging 10-15x the earnings of the workers they represent: http://www.laizquierdadiario.com/A-vos-que-te-cuesta-llegar-a-fin-de-mes-sabes-cuanto-ganan-los-jefes-de-tu-gremio http://www.laizquierdadiario.com/A-vos-que-te-cuesta-llegar-... Union leaders are not forced to publicly disclosed their tax filings, so you can only gauge what they own by what they do. You can argue this is anecdotal evidence, but then again, theres no way to make it no anecdotal because its protected information.

conanbatt 9y ago

Its a complex thing to talk about it, because corruption is common currency in Argentina. The top union leaders (teachers, truckers) have virtually unlimited resources. They live in houses and mansions that cost millions of dollars, but they reported income is well below that. They also enjoy special constitutional protections, that makes them almost as hard to arrest as a politician. Their kids are house representatives. They take pictures with the president and campaign with them. They are part of the ruling class. The lower more ideologically "pure" unions constantly denounce how rich they are by selling out their own workers. They manage the medical insurance fund for all employees in their unions, which is a billion dollar fund: several times it was found they cleared out the funds as well as replaced meds and all that (a few lesser union leaders got convicted of this). Argentina is a special place, and one could argue that corruption is a problem at all institutions. But the unions are one more corrupt institution, that can easily start selling out their own, the same way a politican would or a business man could sell out his employees. For me, calling for unions to solve economic problems is like bringing a bear to solve the bee problem.

owebmaster 9y ago
I'm asking for references to validate your opinion, not more opinions. If you can't provide solid facts, just say it.
- conanbatt 9y ago
  I dont know what kind of source you'd expect but i can share some articles. A note on union leaders owning million dollar homes: http://www.ambito.com/793963-los-duenos-del-paro-y-de-grandes-riquezas http://www.ambito.com/793963-los-duenos-del-paro-y-de-grande... This is the "most successfull" union leader of argentina phyisically removing the president of the largest private post office: http://www.perfil.com/politica/moyano-fue-a-oca-y-echo-por-la-fuerza-al-dueno-de-la-empresa.phtml http://www.perfil.com/politica/moyano-fue-a-oca-y-echo-por-l... Turns out he owns a post office with thousands of employees. He owns a lot of things, being president of a soccer club and all. He was never anything else but a trucker and a trucker union leader. A note on noteworthy union leaders salaries, ranging 10-15x the earnings of the workers they represent: http://www.laizquierdadiario.com/A-vos-que-te-cuesta-llegar-a-fin-de-mes-sabes-cuanto-ganan-los-jefes-de-tu-gremio http://www.laizquierdadiario.com/A-vos-que-te-cuesta-llegar-... Union leaders are not forced to publicly disclosed their tax filings, so you can only gauge what they own by what they do. You can argue this is anecdotal evidence, but then again, theres no way to make it no anecdotal because its protected information.