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Because it's unjust, as these 'nice, exclusive areas' are the ones with the best access to employment and educational opportunities. And it creates an urban fo

Because it's unjust, as these 'nice, exclusive areas' are the ones with the best access to employment and educational opportunities. And it creates an urban form that induces long, high-emission solo driver commutes and fewer residents in a part of the country that requires very little HVAC— both of which lead to a lot of climate change. And it maintains a segregated society, racially and otherwise, where the wealthy may ignore social problems. And it's likely a significant drag on American GDP. So, for all these reasons— it is an abuse of the a local government's police power to make it illegal to build apartment buildings.

sokoloff 9y ago
I believe that zoning is a proper matter for local governments. If it's not a local matter, it seems that governmental zoning has to either not exist or become a state or federal matter. I sure don't want the feds zoning my city, nor do I want the state doing it. I also don't want to live in a world of no zoning. It's a pain that I'd have to appear before the zoning board to get a variance for a larger garage on my property, but the alternatives are far worse, I think, and I like the idea that fellow city residents are the ones deciding our zoning and variance process. What concretely do you propose to effect a fix for the problem that you see?
- akgerber 9y ago
  In much of the world, zoning is enacted at a regional or national level, and serves wider social interests rather than a small group's desire to decide what their neighbors look like. These areas generally have significantly more reasonable housing prices than the Bay Area, as well as higher mass-transit usage. http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html https://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Navigation/EN/Invest/Investment-guide/The-legal-framework/planning-and-building,t=construction-laws,did=6832.html https://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Navigation/EN/Invest/Investment-gui... Why don't you want the federal or state government making decisions on zoning law?
Danihan 9y ago
Until everyone has perfectly identical IQs, attractiveness, charisma, strength, agility and luck, some things will be perceived as economically unjust. In other words, it will always be this way. Life is a competition for resources and genetic legacy, there are always going to be winners and losers. >wealthy may ignore social problems Yes, that's one of the best parts of being wealthy. Being able to enjoy life without constantly worrying about other people's problems. >And it's likely a significant drag on American GDP. Doubtful. Silicon Valley is pretty segregated and does pretty damn well GDP-wise. >it is an abuse of the a local government's police power to make it illegal to build apartment buildings. Zoning laws are police abuse? That's one I haven't heard before. You'd want no government intervention then? Can we build miles and miles of structures like the Oakland Ghost Ship in your fantasy society?
- wbl 9y ago
  No zoning doesn't mean no fire code. And why not give poor people a place to live they can afford?
- akgerber 9y ago
  Land use law is, under American constitutional law, permitted to local governments under the 'Police Power': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power_(United_States_constitutional_law)#Basis_of_United_States_land-use_planning_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power_(United_States_co... In my opinion, using land use law to ban apartment buildings is a misuse of this power. I think that we should be able to build miles and miles of apartment buildings that meet fire-safety codes, rather than laws that mandate vast swathes of a region's land are only usable for single-family homes, leading to sprawl and long car commutes. Just because a society will never be perfectly just doesn't mean the status quo is particularly just— that's the is-ought fallacy. Do you think the state should use its power to ban things you dislike or find aesthetically distasteful, no matter its effects on others, when you're already wealthy and able to build yourself a pleasant life? Because that's the current usage of zoning law in the US.

sokoloff 9y ago

I believe that zoning is a proper matter for local governments. If it's not a local matter, it seems that governmental zoning has to either not exist or become a state or federal matter. I sure don't want the feds zoning my city, nor do I want the state doing it. I also don't want to live in a world of no zoning. It's a pain that I'd have to appear before the zoning board to get a variance for a larger garage on my property, but the alternatives are far worse, I think, and I like the idea that fellow city residents are the ones deciding our zoning and variance process. What concretely do you propose to effect a fix for the problem that you see?

akgerber 9y ago
In much of the world, zoning is enacted at a regional or national level, and serves wider social interests rather than a small group's desire to decide what their neighbors look like. These areas generally have significantly more reasonable housing prices than the Bay Area, as well as higher mass-transit usage. http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html https://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Navigation/EN/Invest/Investment-guide/The-legal-framework/planning-and-building,t=construction-laws,did=6832.html https://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Navigation/EN/Invest/Investment-gui... Why don't you want the federal or state government making decisions on zoning law?

Danihan 9y ago

Until everyone has perfectly identical IQs, attractiveness, charisma, strength, agility and luck, some things will be perceived as economically unjust. In other words, it will always be this way. Life is a competition for resources and genetic legacy, there are always going to be winners and losers. >wealthy may ignore social problems Yes, that's one of the best parts of being wealthy. Being able to enjoy life without constantly worrying about other people's problems. >And it's likely a significant drag on American GDP. Doubtful. Silicon Valley is pretty segregated and does pretty damn well GDP-wise. >it is an abuse of the a local government's police power to make it illegal to build apartment buildings. Zoning laws are police abuse? That's one I haven't heard before. You'd want no government intervention then? Can we build miles and miles of structures like the Oakland Ghost Ship in your fantasy society?

wbl 9y ago
No zoning doesn't mean no fire code. And why not give poor people a place to live they can afford?
akgerber 9y ago
Land use law is, under American constitutional law, permitted to local governments under the 'Police Power': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power_(United_States_constitutional_law)#Basis_of_United_States_land-use_planning_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power_(United_States_co... In my opinion, using land use law to ban apartment buildings is a misuse of this power. I think that we should be able to build miles and miles of apartment buildings that meet fire-safety codes, rather than laws that mandate vast swathes of a region's land are only usable for single-family homes, leading to sprawl and long car commutes. Just because a society will never be perfectly just doesn't mean the status quo is particularly just— that's the is-ought fallacy. Do you think the state should use its power to ban things you dislike or find aesthetically distasteful, no matter its effects on others, when you're already wealthy and able to build yourself a pleasant life? Because that's the current usage of zoning law in the US.