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Why should we believe reported sexual abuse from someone experiencing a psychotic break? I have a family remember who spent two months in a psych ward last year

by dsego 9y ago

Why should we believe reported sexual abuse from someone experiencing a psychotic break? I have a family remember who spent two months in a psych ward last year. They had secretly stopped taking their meds and started practicing some weird form of meditation that triggered vivid recollections of childhood abuse. This culminated in accusing everyone in the family of sexual abuse and even talk about a secret pedophile society in our town. It took heavy doses of anti-psych meds and injections to get them back to reality. Now a year later they don't even mention any of the experiences.

phkahler 9y ago
>> Why should we believe reported sexual abuse from someone experiencing a psychotic break? You should not take it at face value. But neither do I think you should tell them it didn't happen and it's all in their head. The later is telling them there is something wrong with their mind (to shame the patient can be extremely bad practice). Also, if you reject the notion of abuse and it turns out some of it was true, you'd be gas lighting the patient which will lead to additional distress and a distrust of the very people who are trying to help. On a purely speculative note: Perhaps your family member had experienced some of that abuse. Perhaps the stress they were under (and that is a very broad term) lead to those thoughts mixing with all sorts of present day events and people. Whatever the cause, given what they went through to get pulled back to reality do you think they'd ever mention any of it again?
- xxyxx 9y ago
  >> Also, if you reject the notion of abuse and it turns out some of it was true, you'd be gas lighting the patient which will lead to additional distress and a distrust of the very people who are trying to help. Absolutly true. If you deal with a psychotic it is very hard to convince them it's a delusion. People won't understand the patient and will treat them like an idiot and crazy person. Try to treat the patient and the delusions with respect and at least try to understand the situation. If you dismiss it as "crazy talk" and insult the patient's intelligence you will only make it worse. I suffered for years and it was a neverending nightmare. Nobody will ever understand the horrible things I went through. And the worst part of it all. You get told everything is delusions. No one believes you and you doubt yourself. I will never know what experiences were real and what experiences were only in my mind. And it's really hard. I know some of it was real. But I don't know how much and what. I have the constant feeling everybody is gaslighting me and just wants me to believe I'm crazy through and trough. These days I avoid social interactions and keep to myself. I don't trust people anymore and isolated myself. I read a lot and feeding my brain somewhat intellectual content to keep it busy. It seems to work. I haven't had a major episode in 2 years. Which further confirms my theory, that it was the environment and the people around me. I'm happy when I'm alone and I can relax. But I have the constant feeling that I will never know the truth about my experiences and nobody will ever tell me. My point is never, ever under no circumstances lie to a shizophrenic. Not even If you think you are doing a good thing. Tell the truth, even if it will hurt. Not knowing is really really bad for mental health. And we are not exactly good on social cues, so tell it like it is and don't be subtle. source: I was diagnosed 8 years ago edit: typos
  - FailMore 9y ago
    Hi there, I have been through eight years of therapy and though I have not experienced schizophrenia, I have experienced and overcome psychosis. I am fairly sure I understand its origins through my own internal experience of it and the reading I have done on the space (Dr Winnicott is a must). This understanding helped me overcome it. I was wondering if we could perhaps have a Skype / call / go back and forth a few times via email (whatever you are most comfortable with) to see if it helps. If you would be interested please email me at eichler(dot)summers(at)gmail(dot)com. Josh
  - SolaceQuantum 9y ago
    I'm schizotypal so I'm not as bad but I can definitely echo these sentiments, and I would also say that dismissing someone's experiences is incredibly invalidating, especially when it comes to just trying to make friends. I struggle reading human behavior over my paranoia and people can be upset and call me an abusive person for my asking their behavior or seeking their confirmation for their behavior, which often itself becomes them behaving in a gaslighting manner to me in order to prevent me from questioning them. It's really upsetting because I cannot tell if what I am understanding from people's behavior is correct and I am scared of asking.
    - phkahler 9y ago
      I believe this applies to all the cluster A personality disorders. Traditional and widely taught forms of therapy can be harmful to them.
- dsego 9y ago
  Listening and reasoning with them and not taking drastic action, such as having them committed asap was what lead to the full break from reality. For several months my family listened to stories of unjust childhood and traumas, bullying etc. We all knew about those events, but none of them were that dramatic, they were mostly minor stuff, somebody saying something bad or maybe a childhood fight. And then the icing on the cake, two or three months convincing us they were trans-gender. Which included buying new clothes, transforming their look and even talking about surgery. This experience convinces me only that if someone has these kind of issues, you should not hear them out or try to understand, but other type of help is needed. If we acted in time, a lot of of what happened afterward could have been avoided. Being soft and understanding helps no one. And I really regret that me and other family members didn't know enough about mental illness at the time. Btw. their previous diagnosis was borderline disorder, which is why they have a skewed perception of them vs world, nobody understands, everybody is against them etc. Now it seems they are also possibly bipolar or schizoaffective. Really difficult to deal with.
  - phkahler 9y ago
    >> Really difficult to deal with. On that I can agree completely. I had a family member going off the deep end, and there was no convincing them that any of the crazy talk (and some of it really was nuts) was unreasonable. Later when they were more normal someone asked "why did you think xxxx" and the answer was "I don't know". It can be really difficult and I'm not sure there is a "right way" to handle it. I still think there are wrong ways though. >> And I really regret that me and other family members didn't know enough about mental illness at the time. Some things you can only learn through experience - unfortunately.
DanBC 9y ago
> and started practicing some weird form of meditation that triggered vivid recollections of childhood abuse. Sure, we need to be careful to protect against false memory. We know how harmful that's been. But we also need to remember that sexual abuse is very common, and people lying about or having delusions of being abused is somewhat less common.
- dsego 9y ago
  But I think the problem is with people that have mental issues. There may not be a reason for it, but they want to find one anyway. They want validation, and one way is to find some external factor for why they are miserable. So they start digging in their mind for traumas, they try to reinterpret events from the past. Why someone didn't like them, why they were always sad as a child, etc. This person looked at old family photographs and saw that on all of them they look unhappy. Must be rape right? Me, afraid of sleeping in dark, wow, must be a reason for that, for sure it must be childhood abuse, rape and so on. The pseudo-scientific therapist mumbo-jumbo, repressed memories, it's all bullshit. And I understand that now, nobody can convince me otherwise anymore.

by dsego 9y ago

phkahler 9y ago

>> Why should we believe reported sexual abuse from someone experiencing a psychotic break? You should not take it at face value. But neither do I think you should tell them it didn't happen and it's all in their head. The later is telling them there is something wrong with their mind (to shame the patient can be extremely bad practice). Also, if you reject the notion of abuse and it turns out some of it was true, you'd be gas lighting the patient which will lead to additional distress and a distrust of the very people who are trying to help. On a purely speculative note: Perhaps your family member had experienced some of that abuse. Perhaps the stress they were under (and that is a very broad term) lead to those thoughts mixing with all sorts of present day events and people. Whatever the cause, given what they went through to get pulled back to reality do you think they'd ever mention any of it again?

xxyxx 9y ago
>> Also, if you reject the notion of abuse and it turns out some of it was true, you'd be gas lighting the patient which will lead to additional distress and a distrust of the very people who are trying to help. Absolutly true. If you deal with a psychotic it is very hard to convince them it's a delusion. People won't understand the patient and will treat them like an idiot and crazy person. Try to treat the patient and the delusions with respect and at least try to understand the situation. If you dismiss it as "crazy talk" and insult the patient's intelligence you will only make it worse. I suffered for years and it was a neverending nightmare. Nobody will ever understand the horrible things I went through. And the worst part of it all. You get told everything is delusions. No one believes you and you doubt yourself. I will never know what experiences were real and what experiences were only in my mind. And it's really hard. I know some of it was real. But I don't know how much and what. I have the constant feeling everybody is gaslighting me and just wants me to believe I'm crazy through and trough. These days I avoid social interactions and keep to myself. I don't trust people anymore and isolated myself. I read a lot and feeding my brain somewhat intellectual content to keep it busy. It seems to work. I haven't had a major episode in 2 years. Which further confirms my theory, that it was the environment and the people around me. I'm happy when I'm alone and I can relax. But I have the constant feeling that I will never know the truth about my experiences and nobody will ever tell me. My point is never, ever under no circumstances lie to a shizophrenic. Not even If you think you are doing a good thing. Tell the truth, even if it will hurt. Not knowing is really really bad for mental health. And we are not exactly good on social cues, so tell it like it is and don't be subtle. source: I was diagnosed 8 years ago edit: typos
- FailMore 9y ago
  Hi there, I have been through eight years of therapy and though I have not experienced schizophrenia, I have experienced and overcome psychosis. I am fairly sure I understand its origins through my own internal experience of it and the reading I have done on the space (Dr Winnicott is a must). This understanding helped me overcome it. I was wondering if we could perhaps have a Skype / call / go back and forth a few times via email (whatever you are most comfortable with) to see if it helps. If you would be interested please email me at eichler(dot)summers(at)gmail(dot)com. Josh
- SolaceQuantum 9y ago
  I'm schizotypal so I'm not as bad but I can definitely echo these sentiments, and I would also say that dismissing someone's experiences is incredibly invalidating, especially when it comes to just trying to make friends. I struggle reading human behavior over my paranoia and people can be upset and call me an abusive person for my asking their behavior or seeking their confirmation for their behavior, which often itself becomes them behaving in a gaslighting manner to me in order to prevent me from questioning them. It's really upsetting because I cannot tell if what I am understanding from people's behavior is correct and I am scared of asking.
  - phkahler 9y ago
    I believe this applies to all the cluster A personality disorders. Traditional and widely taught forms of therapy can be harmful to them.
dsego 9y ago
Listening and reasoning with them and not taking drastic action, such as having them committed asap was what lead to the full break from reality. For several months my family listened to stories of unjust childhood and traumas, bullying etc. We all knew about those events, but none of them were that dramatic, they were mostly minor stuff, somebody saying something bad or maybe a childhood fight. And then the icing on the cake, two or three months convincing us they were trans-gender. Which included buying new clothes, transforming their look and even talking about surgery. This experience convinces me only that if someone has these kind of issues, you should not hear them out or try to understand, but other type of help is needed. If we acted in time, a lot of of what happened afterward could have been avoided. Being soft and understanding helps no one. And I really regret that me and other family members didn't know enough about mental illness at the time. Btw. their previous diagnosis was borderline disorder, which is why they have a skewed perception of them vs world, nobody understands, everybody is against them etc. Now it seems they are also possibly bipolar or schizoaffective. Really difficult to deal with.
- phkahler 9y ago
  >> Really difficult to deal with. On that I can agree completely. I had a family member going off the deep end, and there was no convincing them that any of the crazy talk (and some of it really was nuts) was unreasonable. Later when they were more normal someone asked "why did you think xxxx" and the answer was "I don't know". It can be really difficult and I'm not sure there is a "right way" to handle it. I still think there are wrong ways though. >> And I really regret that me and other family members didn't know enough about mental illness at the time. Some things you can only learn through experience - unfortunately.

DanBC 9y ago

> and started practicing some weird form of meditation that triggered vivid recollections of childhood abuse. Sure, we need to be careful to protect against false memory. We know how harmful that's been. But we also need to remember that sexual abuse is very common, and people lying about or having delusions of being abused is somewhat less common.

dsego 9y ago
But I think the problem is with people that have mental issues. There may not be a reason for it, but they want to find one anyway. They want validation, and one way is to find some external factor for why they are miserable. So they start digging in their mind for traumas, they try to reinterpret events from the past. Why someone didn't like them, why they were always sad as a child, etc. This person looked at old family photographs and saw that on all of them they look unhappy. Must be rape right? Me, afraid of sleeping in dark, wow, must be a reason for that, for sure it must be childhood abuse, rape and so on. The pseudo-scientific therapist mumbo-jumbo, repressed memories, it's all bullshit. And I understand that now, nobody can convince me otherwise anymore.