6 ms·

The author must not be used to the new spyware-by-default mentality coming from Microsoft. Hard to believe, but they used to sell products a while ago and had

by blub 9y ago

The author must not be used to the new spyware-by-default mentality coming from Microsoft. Hard to believe, but they used to sell products a while ago and had no telemetry. If you want to see how it's done properly, look at OmniGroup: their apps have toggleable telemetry and it's off by default.

nitinreddy88 9y ago
@blub can you explain me how it's exactly "spying on you"? There is difference between collecting information about how many people are using vs whether a particular person is using. Collecting diagnostic information from windows application failures/how many failures etc are there ever since Windows 95 era. Similarly, collecting information about how many people are using dotnet core build/test/publish is similar to how Google/Mozilla tracks how many users are running which version of their product and experience issues. If Microsoft/Google/Mozilla or any other company uses that information to identify a specific person is "effectively spying on you". Until that's not there, the same functionality exists in almost every product. Just click bait article.
- vetinari 9y ago
  Mozilla asks you, whether you want to send the telemetry. If you say no, it won't send anything. No, the settings do not mysteriously reset themselves.
  - j_s 9y ago
    Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14753546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14753546 "Someone submitted a PR to Mozilla to fix this, and the Mozilla devs closed it" Impossible to opt-out until about 2 weeks ago.
    - vetinari 9y ago
      Come on, that was a bug in the new preferences pages. The telemetry I was talking about is exactly the one, where you get a bar at the bottom during first launch. Try it, you will see it.
      - j_s 9y ago
        Perhaps this instance was an honest mistake. The specifics of a custom deal with Google and the circling of the wagons (specifically opinions expressed by multiple Mozilla employees in an official capacity) prior to reversing course does not strengthen that case. > If you say no, it won't send anything. This simply wasn't true; I am glad that the implementation was fixed.
- jackmott 9y ago
  it can't be explained to you
- jackmott 9y ago
  it can't be explained to you
- blub 9y ago
  Spyware is software collecting information about someone without their consent. Doesn't have to be malicious, doesn't have to be what's legally defined as personal information. The fact that many companies are doing it doesn't make it less inappropriate. Reputable companies will clearly inform users and ask for their confirmation. Then they respect their choice. Disreputable companies such as MS or Google take without asking, use dark patterns to trick users, default to always on, reset privacy settings, etc.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    As someone who has removed my fair share of spyware infections I'll say "easy now". I think I'll be happy the day EU and American consumer protection agencies start looking closer into Googles business. I'd also applaud even more visible information about what exactly gets collected and sent (the old gds "Read very carefully - this is not the usual yadda yadda" would be a good start). However IMO we shouldn't call legitimate telemetry "spyware". I thing that is what you call "crying wolf".
nolok 9y ago
> The author must not be used to the new spyware-by-default mentality coming from Microsoft. Hard to believe, but they used to sell products a while ago and had no telemetry. Yeah well you and the author's first clue should have been when you stopped paying for said products. And in this specific case, it's really not spying, it reveals pretty much nothing about you and help them figure out what is used and what fails.
- tunap 9y ago
  Give them time to find new "opportunities" to monetize... https://news.microsoft.com/2017/07/19/dun-bradstreet-teams-up-with-microsoft-to-reimagine-the-power-of-data-in-the-cloud/#7247r5Xopvz7ZodT.97 https://news.microsoft.com/2017/07/19/dun-bradstreet-teams-u...
- msla 9y ago
  I use a ton of software I don't pay for which also doesn't spy on me. Or are you making some weird accusations against the FSF and the GNU Project?
moron4hire 9y ago
What use is off-by-default? Who turns telemetry on?
- cjsuk 9y ago
  This says that telemetry is the wrong solution then.
  - Guvante 9y ago
    Why? Defaults are important and the vast majority don't care (assuming correctly selected telemetry data) and the majority can't be bothered to change the default in either case. Again I am making a huge assumption about correctly selected telemetry data here but opt in mechanisms won't get even 10% of the data they currently do.
    - cjsuk 9y ago
      Defaults should respect the user first. Consent has to be given, not taken as a default. Sure ask up front explicitly but don't in passing invoke the first capture before consent has been taken. That's a shitty tactic.
      - moron4hire 9y ago
        Collecting basic usage data is not disrespecting the user.
        concede_pluto 9y ago
        It is when you know you can't persuade them you have a good-enough reason to need it, so instead you don't even try.
        cjsuk 9y ago
        In your opinion. Mine differs.
- 9y ago

by blub 9y ago

nitinreddy88 9y ago

@blub can you explain me how it's exactly "spying on you"? There is difference between collecting information about how many people are using vs whether a particular person is using. Collecting diagnostic information from windows application failures/how many failures etc are there ever since Windows 95 era. Similarly, collecting information about how many people are using dotnet core build/test/publish is similar to how Google/Mozilla tracks how many users are running which version of their product and experience issues. If Microsoft/Google/Mozilla or any other company uses that information to identify a specific person is "effectively spying on you". Until that's not there, the same functionality exists in almost every product. Just click bait article.

vetinari 9y ago
Mozilla asks you, whether you want to send the telemetry. If you say no, it won't send anything. No, the settings do not mysteriously reset themselves.
- j_s 9y ago
  Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14753546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14753546 "Someone submitted a PR to Mozilla to fix this, and the Mozilla devs closed it" Impossible to opt-out until about 2 weeks ago.
  - vetinari 9y ago
    Come on, that was a bug in the new preferences pages. The telemetry I was talking about is exactly the one, where you get a bar at the bottom during first launch. Try it, you will see it.
    - j_s 9y ago
      Perhaps this instance was an honest mistake. The specifics of a custom deal with Google and the circling of the wagons (specifically opinions expressed by multiple Mozilla employees in an official capacity) prior to reversing course does not strengthen that case. > If you say no, it won't send anything. This simply wasn't true; I am glad that the implementation was fixed.
jackmott 9y ago
it can't be explained to you
jackmott 9y ago
it can't be explained to you
blub 9y ago
Spyware is software collecting information about someone without their consent. Doesn't have to be malicious, doesn't have to be what's legally defined as personal information. The fact that many companies are doing it doesn't make it less inappropriate. Reputable companies will clearly inform users and ask for their confirmation. Then they respect their choice. Disreputable companies such as MS or Google take without asking, use dark patterns to trick users, default to always on, reset privacy settings, etc.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- reitanqild 9y ago
  As someone who has removed my fair share of spyware infections I'll say "easy now". I think I'll be happy the day EU and American consumer protection agencies start looking closer into Googles business. I'd also applaud even more visible information about what exactly gets collected and sent (the old gds "Read very carefully - this is not the usual yadda yadda" would be a good start). However IMO we shouldn't call legitimate telemetry "spyware". I thing that is what you call "crying wolf".

nolok 9y ago

> The author must not be used to the new spyware-by-default mentality coming from Microsoft. Hard to believe, but they used to sell products a while ago and had no telemetry. Yeah well you and the author's first clue should have been when you stopped paying for said products. And in this specific case, it's really not spying, it reveals pretty much nothing about you and help them figure out what is used and what fails.

tunap 9y ago
Give them time to find new "opportunities" to monetize... https://news.microsoft.com/2017/07/19/dun-bradstreet-teams-up-with-microsoft-to-reimagine-the-power-of-data-in-the-cloud/#7247r5Xopvz7ZodT.97 https://news.microsoft.com/2017/07/19/dun-bradstreet-teams-u...
msla 9y ago
I use a ton of software I don't pay for which also doesn't spy on me. Or are you making some weird accusations against the FSF and the GNU Project?

moron4hire 9y ago

What use is off-by-default? Who turns telemetry on?

cjsuk 9y ago
This says that telemetry is the wrong solution then.
- Guvante 9y ago
  Why? Defaults are important and the vast majority don't care (assuming correctly selected telemetry data) and the majority can't be bothered to change the default in either case. Again I am making a huge assumption about correctly selected telemetry data here but opt in mechanisms won't get even 10% of the data they currently do.
  - cjsuk 9y ago
    Defaults should respect the user first. Consent has to be given, not taken as a default. Sure ask up front explicitly but don't in passing invoke the first capture before consent has been taken. That's a shitty tactic.
    - moron4hire 9y ago
      Collecting basic usage data is not disrespecting the user.
      - concede_pluto 9y ago
        It is when you know you can't persuade them you have a good-enough reason to need it, so instead you don't even try.
      - cjsuk 9y ago
        In your opinion. Mine differs.
9y ago