6 ms·

An American acquitted of spying for the Soviets after he confessed to it

70 points by samclemens 9y ago

Hydraulix989 9y ago
"An American acquitted of spying for the Soviets–even after he confessed to it" I am not sure why the word "even" is necessary in this title -- forced confessions happen all of the time, even in America.
- bitJericho 9y ago
  Especially in America
  - m00x 9y ago
    Source?
    - ChuckMcM 9y ago
      http://www.newsweek.com/why-people-confess-crimes-didnt-commit-470227 http://www.newsweek.com/why-people-confess-crimes-didnt-comm...
      - golergka 9y ago
        After watching the whole documentary, I can't see how this confession can be considered "forced" - best claim defense attorney had was that the boy was so mentally challenged he didn't understand what he was confessing to. Meanwhile, in non-first world countries, torturing and beating subjects on the usual, even non-vioent crimes is a routine. US justice had problems, but your "especially" is unwarranted.
        RandVal30142 9y ago
        That we've identified how this human behavior yields improper enforcement of law and try to take measures to guard against it is a good sign. Never-ending fight I imagine though.
        bitJericho 9y ago
        Don't act like torture isn't happening in the us. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray
        pyroinferno 9y ago
        How does this have anything to do with OP? The circumstances are completely different.
        bitJericho 9y ago
        They took a guy, put him in a van, tortured him, before they were going to process, and potentially charge him. This was torture by the police who also do interrogations. This is not some isolated incident. This is normal police procedure. Intimidate. Arrest. Torture. Prosecute.
        golergka 9y ago
        I don't. My point was about relative stats, not absolute. Is the difference between these two concepts such a complicated thing?
        Hydraulix989 9y ago
        Not sure where I see you mention anything at all about stats? It's hard to make statistical arguments for things that are difficult to quantify because they are so underreported.
    - ithinkso 9y ago
      Plea bargain is often forced confession - so many plead guilty out of fear
  - nv-vn 9y ago
    I've heard they're incredibly common in Japan as well.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- illegal_in_ca 9y ago
  Hey, just because you torture a child and they confess in the hopes of relocation to a prison in their own county doesn't mean they're not terrorists. I wonder if I can find any examples... Here we go, this seems evenhanded and without political motivation: https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/meet-canadas-newest-multi-millionaire-omar-khadr/ https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/meet-canadas-newest-multi-mi...
- detaro 9y ago
  Unless confessing suspects (forced or otherwise) regularly get acquitted in espionage cases I'd say the "even" is appropriate.
  - BeetleB 9y ago
    >Unless confessing suspects (forced or otherwise) regularly get acquitted in espionage cases I'd say the "even" is appropriate I don't know about espionage, but over 25% of folks exonerated due to DNA evidence had confessed.
    - jdboyd 9y ago
      But how many of those people were acquitted at trial as opposed to having the verdict overturned later?
      - BeetleB 9y ago
        None of them. These were people who were convicted and later exonerated.
moomin 9y ago
Reminds me rather of the Matrix Churchill scandal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq In that case, it is generally accepted that a) the CEO did work for the security services and b) the government did its best to cover up its role in the affair.
- Sniffnoy 9y ago
  Non-mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq
  - moomin 9y ago
    Off topic rant: if I get redirected to the mobile site the whole time, why doesn't it do the inverse for desktop users? (The answer is probably: because it would inconvenience developers.)
teddyh 9y ago
Note: These events happened in 1982 to 1984, and has nothing to do with the current media events regarding Russia.
- tasuki 9y ago
  The title mentions Soviets, suggesting this was pre-1991.
  - teddyh 9y ago
    Not everyone is equally quick to make that distinction. I certainly misinterpreted the headline and thought this was about a current event.
TempleOS 9y ago
The CIA must surrender to the IRA. You started a war with God and must surrender, you retards. You retard Jew-Freemason-nigger morons. God says... expostulated spans foraying Pennsylvanians analyzers sparrow gallantly geezer pumpkin's marvellously Dipper's strain's kindlier catatonic Uranus's transliterated ohm's hustle boggles redistributing huckleberry nicknaming largely cannot Playtex oregano remove equipment display sturgeon's fratricides Freetown's
TempleOS 9y ago
Trump started a war with God and must immediately surrender unconditionally.
forgottenacc57 9y ago
Was it Donald trump or his son or son in law?
- belorn 9y ago
  Are you truly believing that it was Donald Trump and he was initially named "Richard Craig Smith" in 1984 and later changed his name, or are you simply making a political point?
  - whowalrus 9y ago
    Is that a genuine question or a rhetorical one?
    - teddyh 9y ago
      Given Poe’s law, it’s difficult to know whether anyone is exaggerating or not. So belorn’s question is most likely genuine. Once the answer to the question is known, the debate could continue one way or another, but not until then.
  - awinder 9y ago
    http://fortune.com/2016/05/18/donald-trump-fake-names/ http://fortune.com/2016/05/18/donald-trump-fake-names/ (not covering for the original poster, I'm pretty sure he was joking around, but it's not THE most outlandish thing one could come to believe)
westmeal 9y ago
Quick typo: >The CIA made me them do it.

70 points by samclemens 9y ago

"An American acquitted of spying for the Soviets–even after he confessed to it" I am not sure why the word "even" is necessary in this title -- forced confessions happen all of the time, even in America.

bitJericho 9y ago
Especially in America
- m00x 9y ago
  Source?
  - ChuckMcM 9y ago
    http://www.newsweek.com/why-people-confess-crimes-didnt-commit-470227 http://www.newsweek.com/why-people-confess-crimes-didnt-comm...
    - golergka 9y ago
      After watching the whole documentary, I can't see how this confession can be considered "forced" - best claim defense attorney had was that the boy was so mentally challenged he didn't understand what he was confessing to. Meanwhile, in non-first world countries, torturing and beating subjects on the usual, even non-vioent crimes is a routine. US justice had problems, but your "especially" is unwarranted.
      - RandVal30142 9y ago
        That we've identified how this human behavior yields improper enforcement of law and try to take measures to guard against it is a good sign. Never-ending fight I imagine though.
      - bitJericho 9y ago
        Don't act like torture isn't happening in the us. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray
        pyroinferno 9y ago
        How does this have anything to do with OP? The circumstances are completely different.
        bitJericho 9y ago
        They took a guy, put him in a van, tortured him, before they were going to process, and potentially charge him. This was torture by the police who also do interrogations. This is not some isolated incident. This is normal police procedure. Intimidate. Arrest. Torture. Prosecute.
        golergka 9y ago
        I don't. My point was about relative stats, not absolute. Is the difference between these two concepts such a complicated thing?
        Hydraulix989 9y ago
        Not sure where I see you mention anything at all about stats? It's hard to make statistical arguments for things that are difficult to quantify because they are so underreported.
  - ithinkso 9y ago
    Plea bargain is often forced confession - so many plead guilty out of fear
- nv-vn 9y ago
  I've heard they're incredibly common in Japan as well.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
illegal_in_ca 9y ago
Hey, just because you torture a child and they confess in the hopes of relocation to a prison in their own county doesn't mean they're not terrorists. I wonder if I can find any examples... Here we go, this seems evenhanded and without political motivation: https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/meet-canadas-newest-multi-millionaire-omar-khadr/ https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/meet-canadas-newest-multi-mi...
detaro 9y ago
Unless confessing suspects (forced or otherwise) regularly get acquitted in espionage cases I'd say the "even" is appropriate.
- BeetleB 9y ago
  >Unless confessing suspects (forced or otherwise) regularly get acquitted in espionage cases I'd say the "even" is appropriate I don't know about espionage, but over 25% of folks exonerated due to DNA evidence had confessed.
  - jdboyd 9y ago
    But how many of those people were acquitted at trial as opposed to having the verdict overturned later?
    - BeetleB 9y ago
      None of them. These were people who were convicted and later exonerated.

moomin 9y ago

Reminds me rather of the Matrix Churchill scandal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq In that case, it is generally accepted that a) the CEO did work for the security services and b) the government did its best to cover up its role in the affair.

Sniffnoy 9y ago
Non-mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq
- moomin 9y ago
  Off topic rant: if I get redirected to the mobile site the whole time, why doesn't it do the inverse for desktop users? (The answer is probably: because it would inconvenience developers.)

teddyh 9y ago

Note: These events happened in 1982 to 1984, and has nothing to do with the current media events regarding Russia.

tasuki 9y ago
The title mentions Soviets, suggesting this was pre-1991.
- teddyh 9y ago
  Not everyone is equally quick to make that distinction. I certainly misinterpreted the headline and thought this was about a current event.

TempleOS 9y ago

The CIA must surrender to the IRA. You started a war with God and must surrender, you retards. You retard Jew-Freemason-nigger morons. God says... expostulated spans foraying Pennsylvanians analyzers sparrow gallantly geezer pumpkin's marvellously Dipper's strain's kindlier catatonic Uranus's transliterated ohm's hustle boggles redistributing huckleberry nicknaming largely cannot Playtex oregano remove equipment display sturgeon's fratricides Freetown's

TempleOS 9y ago

Trump started a war with God and must immediately surrender unconditionally.

forgottenacc57 9y ago

Was it Donald trump or his son or son in law?

belorn 9y ago
Are you truly believing that it was Donald Trump and he was initially named "Richard Craig Smith" in 1984 and later changed his name, or are you simply making a political point?
- whowalrus 9y ago
  Is that a genuine question or a rhetorical one?
  - teddyh 9y ago
    Given Poe’s law, it’s difficult to know whether anyone is exaggerating or not. So belorn’s question is most likely genuine. Once the answer to the question is known, the debate could continue one way or another, but not until then.
- awinder 9y ago
  http://fortune.com/2016/05/18/donald-trump-fake-names/ http://fortune.com/2016/05/18/donald-trump-fake-names/ (not covering for the original poster, I'm pretty sure he was joking around, but it's not THE most outlandish thing one could come to believe)

westmeal 9y ago

Quick typo: >The CIA made me them do it.