3 ms·

120 M€ [https://www.pv-magazine.de/2017/06/22/ewe-plant-bau-eines-batteriespeicher-mit-120-megawatt-leistung/ https://www.pv-magazine.de/2017/06/22/ewe-plant-ba

by ju-st 9y ago

120 M€ [https://www.pv-magazine.de/2017/06/22/ewe-plant-bau-eines-batteriespeicher-mit-120-megawatt-leistung/ https://www.pv-magazine.de/2017/06/22/ewe-plant-bau-eines-ba...] 750 MWh ------ 160 € per kWh. LiIon is currently at ~170€/kWh (200USD). LiIon prices will drop more until 2023 but 160€ is still a very good considering this is a research project.

olegkikin 9y ago
Tesla Powerwall battery is $5,500 for 14kWh. That's $392/kWh. Where do you get the $200/kWh batteries from?
- askvictor 9y ago
  Possibly bulk pricing?
  - ju-st 9y ago
    I googled it, e.g. "Since 2014, the cost of completed packs has crashed from $400/kWh to below $200/kWh for some stationary storage systems, he says. Similar reductions have hit the automotive market. GM has said it’s paying LG $145/kWh for the cells in the 2017 Bolt battery pack." http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017-is-the-makeorbreak-year-for-teslas-gigafactory http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017-i... Several other websites mention 200USD as the price Tesla pays for the packaged cells.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  You're comparing a small consumer product to a large industrial installation? Tesla's Powerpack is an industrial-scale system.
  - olegkikin 9y ago
    Tesla Powerwall is a consumer product. https://www.tesla.com/powerwall https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      Large installations are a different product: https://www.tesla.com/powerpack https://www.tesla.com/powerpack
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      Right, and the big industrial system I'm referring to is the flow battery described in this article. Which I'm sure you read.
- donquichotte 9y ago
  Why the downvotes? I have not found a source that will provide me with Li-Ion cells (without battery management systems) for < 300 USD/kWh
spqr0a1 9y ago
In a high use setting like grid storage, the cost per charge cycle is a more important metric. Many lithium systems are only rated for ~1000 deep cycles. Since this redox-flow system is advertised at 10,000 cycles, it could end up being much cheaper overall.

by ju-st 9y ago

olegkikin 9y ago

Tesla Powerwall battery is $5,500 for 14kWh. That's $392/kWh. Where do you get the $200/kWh batteries from?

askvictor 9y ago
Possibly bulk pricing?
- ju-st 9y ago
  I googled it, e.g. "Since 2014, the cost of completed packs has crashed from $400/kWh to below $200/kWh for some stationary storage systems, he says. Similar reductions have hit the automotive market. GM has said it’s paying LG $145/kWh for the cells in the 2017 Bolt battery pack." http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017-is-the-makeorbreak-year-for-teslas-gigafactory http://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/2017-i... Several other websites mention 200USD as the price Tesla pays for the packaged cells.
greglindahl 9y ago
You're comparing a small consumer product to a large industrial installation? Tesla's Powerpack is an industrial-scale system.
- olegkikin 9y ago
  Tesla Powerwall is a consumer product. https://www.tesla.com/powerwall https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    Large installations are a different product: https://www.tesla.com/powerpack https://www.tesla.com/powerpack
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Right, and the big industrial system I'm referring to is the flow battery described in this article. Which I'm sure you read.
donquichotte 9y ago
Why the downvotes? I have not found a source that will provide me with Li-Ion cells (without battery management systems) for < 300 USD/kWh

spqr0a1 9y ago

In a high use setting like grid storage, the cost per charge cycle is a more important metric. Many lithium systems are only rated for ~1000 deep cycles. Since this redox-flow system is advertised at 10,000 cycles, it could end up being much cheaper overall.