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The Odin Project – Learn Web Development for Free

150 points by gkop 9y ago

unclebucknasty 9y ago
Wait. Somebody figured out how to do Web development?
- tempodox 9y ago
  Not really.
gkop 9y ago
The Show HN from over 3 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7466487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7466487 Anecdote: I hired an Odin Project "graduate" in early 2015, somebody who had gotten a CS degree 10 years earlier but never done anything with it. The Odin Project had prepared him to hit the ground running on modern web software development, and also prepared him for evaluation for our job, with an impressive capstone project. He was a successful hire without a doubt.
- Double_a_92 9y ago
  What happened with the CS graduate?
  - jve 9y ago
    I read it as it is the same person who has CS diploma.
    - Double_a_92 9y ago
      Oh yeah sorry... I read "and" instead of the comma ._.
vosper 9y ago
I question starting people on Ruby for web development. It was big and popular, but I feel that the popularity is fading (has faded?) for new projects, and there's a lot of magic in that language, too. Anyone starting web development now would do well to stick with Javascript. No, it's not the nicest language, but there's no avoided it. And you can always use that on the backend if you have to - and if you need to spend time learning something for the backend part you'd be better served learning about relational databases than Ruby. Anyway, between JS, HTML, and CSS, you're going to have a lot to learn. At least with CSS these days you can pretty much start with flexbox for layout, and maybe if you're lucky you'll never have to learn all the old horrible methods of getting things to look reasonable - or you'll have a solid foundation when you do encounter them.
- gkop 9y ago
  When hiring junior developers, I look for experience in at least two general purpose languages, because I think comparing and contrasting at least two languages gives you a valuable and necessary perspective. In web software engineering, Ruby+JavaScript (or Python+JavaScript or Go+JavaScript, etc) is a convenient and powerful way to check this box, but "full-stack JavaScript" falls short.
  - slaymaker1907 9y ago
    I think Java would be a better second language than Ruby. It is radically different from JS despite the name and is incredibly useful to know due to its wide usage. It also serves as one or the lingua francas of the CS community (alongside C of course). Not that I think Java is a pleasant language. It is quite a monstrosity in terms of syntax and verbosity, but that doesn't mean it isn't useful to know.
    - rhizome 9y ago
      As a data point, I started actual-programming in Perl 15 years ago, started on Rails about 10 years ago, and am now taking Java classes to get some interview-question fundamentals under my belt, since Rails is historically a recovery path for Java programmers. I don't know how it works the other way around, but for me Java has been pretty easy after writing Ruby for some years.
srikz 9y ago
Thanks for making this. Quick feedback: The 'Points to Ponder' section in the 'Javascript Basics' course should probably be put in a Bootstrap Well. On browsers/OSs where the scroll bar isn't shown unless you scroll, it can easily be missed. I feel if it has to be a scroller within a scroller, it should be visibly distinguished. Good luck!
scyclow 9y ago
The fact that their website looks like garbage on mobile doesn't really inspire a lot of confidence in me.
- gkop 9y ago
  Perhaps they make up for this with a hilarious Contact Us page? https://www.theodinproject.com/contact https://www.theodinproject.com/contact
  - sjroot 9y ago
    Not really.
  - qmarchi 9y ago
    I spy with my little eye, way too much italicize.
- KevinMul 9y ago
  Hey, one of the maintainers of the project here. The website was hastily threw together a few years back to host the curriculum. Its never been that great. We are working hard on rectifying that with a complete redesign though https://staging-odin-project.herokuapp.com/ https://staging-odin-project.herokuapp.com/
bdcravens 9y ago
Interesting that the graphic for "Build Your Own Tools" is the XCode icon, even though this is a web development course, not a mobile one.
olegious 9y ago
Is there a Python version of this?
- hackermailman 9y ago
  w/Django yes https://www.springboard.com/learning-paths/web-development-python-django/ https://www.springboard.com/learning-paths/web-development-p... There's also this Java/Typescript curriculum https://www.edx.org/micromasters/software-development https://www.edx.org/micromasters/software-development
rolae 9y ago
I am currently learning with the odin project. I see most of the discussion so far focused on whether ruby is right language. I think the project is very valuable not for its choice of language but for its overall excellent content and approach. A few examples - When doing my first lessons on ruby you are asked to read several tutorials. I thought, well I already learned that, but in every article I managed to find something new. - It uses a multitude of other learning sources, does not even try to cover too much themselves. So you get to learn in very different ways. Reading good articles, watching some talks, downloading a repo where you need to write the code to make the test run successfully. Overall I feel, I get the best content, not because they write the best content (who could do that for all the subjects?), but it points you to great content. - Contrary to many online tools, it forces you to work on your own system, which is a good thing. - It often forces you to define the problem you are solving yourself. Many online courses make it too easy, you just learn coding. You don't learn to structure the problem. - It also tries to give you a solid programming knowledge before going into web development. I really appreciate that. It's so easy to learn some angular or vue.js, then you... just need to fetch some data, ah how do I store data, oh and authentication and authorization, oh and... and quickly you get lost. I think it's is very beneficial to first get some solid programming knowledge before diving into the whole server / db / frontend stack. So I can highly recommend this approach. BTW: even the creators are thinking of driving the course more towards JS (https://github.com/TheOdinProject/curriculum/issues/5633 https://github.com/TheOdinProject/curriculum/issues/5633) edit: formatting
snowcrshd 9y ago
Is this still active? I had the impression they (the project's creators) had left this in favor of Viking Code School [1]. Apparently Viking Code School has both Ruby and JS separate tracks (I may be misremembering, though) [1] https://www.vikingcodeschool.com https://www.vikingcodeschool.com
- weston 9y ago
  Odin, iirc, is for people who are more self-guided. Viking seems to be for those who need more help (mentors, tutors, etc.)
- KevinMul 9y ago
  Hey,I'm one of the maintainers of the project and can ensure you its very much alive :) Erik the original creator of The Odin Project, has moved on to focus on Viking. But theres a bunch of us working on improving the project.
  - snowcrshd 9y ago
    That's great to know! The work you guys do is awesome!
ceautery 9y ago
From the "Handling a job offer" page: "they've been totally in control of the process until now and they've probably dragged their feet because they can (who knows, an even better developer might show up, right?)." I don't care about the which-language-is-best-to-start-with debate that is being argued in full force here. If you want to rails, knock yourself out. If you want to JS, woo! JS!. I care a lot about seeing your potential employer as an antagonist. They have just indicated to you that they like you enough to invite you to join them. Negotiate, sure, but assume good faith. And the very idea that they were waiting for a better candidate who didn't show up undervalues you. YOU were the one that impressed them most. How well you code was only a part of their choice. They liked your personality best, too, and your honesty, and your dedication, and that indefinable other thing that's hard to quantify. They are likely the good guys, and they see you the same way. Now go ask for a better salary, or more vacation, but don't assume the worst.
wyqydsyq 9y ago
The project itself is a great concept but pushing people into RoR and jQuery? Really? Come on, it's 2017. Ruby is hardly a marketable skill, there are very few agencies still utilising it on new projects. I'd also be shocked to see a new project built with jQuery in this day and age. Teach beginners backend JavaScript with Node.js. It's not a matter of personal preference, JavaScript is objectively easier for beginners to learn and utilise for backend programming because arbitrarily introducing another language when they already know front-end JS increases cognitive load for no benefit.
peternicky 9y ago
This is an example of a terrible web app. I think a company that provides a course to learn web development should put in the effort to make their website a shining example of the best techniques and technologies. This looks like it was made by an amateur.

150 points by gkop 9y ago

unclebucknasty 9y ago

Wait. Somebody figured out how to do Web development?

tempodox 9y ago
Not really.

gkop 9y ago

The Show HN from over 3 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7466487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7466487 Anecdote: I hired an Odin Project "graduate" in early 2015, somebody who had gotten a CS degree 10 years earlier but never done anything with it. The Odin Project had prepared him to hit the ground running on modern web software development, and also prepared him for evaluation for our job, with an impressive capstone project. He was a successful hire without a doubt.

Double_a_92 9y ago
What happened with the CS graduate?
- jve 9y ago
  I read it as it is the same person who has CS diploma.
  - Double_a_92 9y ago
    Oh yeah sorry... I read "and" instead of the comma ._.

vosper 9y ago

I question starting people on Ruby for web development. It was big and popular, but I feel that the popularity is fading (has faded?) for new projects, and there's a lot of magic in that language, too. Anyone starting web development now would do well to stick with Javascript. No, it's not the nicest language, but there's no avoided it. And you can always use that on the backend if you have to - and if you need to spend time learning something for the backend part you'd be better served learning about relational databases than Ruby. Anyway, between JS, HTML, and CSS, you're going to have a lot to learn. At least with CSS these days you can pretty much start with flexbox for layout, and maybe if you're lucky you'll never have to learn all the old horrible methods of getting things to look reasonable - or you'll have a solid foundation when you do encounter them.

gkop 9y ago
When hiring junior developers, I look for experience in at least two general purpose languages, because I think comparing and contrasting at least two languages gives you a valuable and necessary perspective. In web software engineering, Ruby+JavaScript (or Python+JavaScript or Go+JavaScript, etc) is a convenient and powerful way to check this box, but "full-stack JavaScript" falls short.
- slaymaker1907 9y ago
  I think Java would be a better second language than Ruby. It is radically different from JS despite the name and is incredibly useful to know due to its wide usage. It also serves as one or the lingua francas of the CS community (alongside C of course). Not that I think Java is a pleasant language. It is quite a monstrosity in terms of syntax and verbosity, but that doesn't mean it isn't useful to know.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    As a data point, I started actual-programming in Perl 15 years ago, started on Rails about 10 years ago, and am now taking Java classes to get some interview-question fundamentals under my belt, since Rails is historically a recovery path for Java programmers. I don't know how it works the other way around, but for me Java has been pretty easy after writing Ruby for some years.

srikz 9y ago

Thanks for making this. Quick feedback: The 'Points to Ponder' section in the 'Javascript Basics' course should probably be put in a Bootstrap Well. On browsers/OSs where the scroll bar isn't shown unless you scroll, it can easily be missed. I feel if it has to be a scroller within a scroller, it should be visibly distinguished. Good luck!

scyclow 9y ago

The fact that their website looks like garbage on mobile doesn't really inspire a lot of confidence in me.

gkop 9y ago
Perhaps they make up for this with a hilarious Contact Us page? https://www.theodinproject.com/contact https://www.theodinproject.com/contact
- sjroot 9y ago
  Not really.
- qmarchi 9y ago
  I spy with my little eye, way too much italicize.
KevinMul 9y ago
Hey, one of the maintainers of the project here. The website was hastily threw together a few years back to host the curriculum. Its never been that great. We are working hard on rectifying that with a complete redesign though https://staging-odin-project.herokuapp.com/ https://staging-odin-project.herokuapp.com/

bdcravens 9y ago

Interesting that the graphic for "Build Your Own Tools" is the XCode icon, even though this is a web development course, not a mobile one.

olegious 9y ago

Is there a Python version of this?

hackermailman 9y ago
w/Django yes https://www.springboard.com/learning-paths/web-development-python-django/ https://www.springboard.com/learning-paths/web-development-p... There's also this Java/Typescript curriculum https://www.edx.org/micromasters/software-development https://www.edx.org/micromasters/software-development

rolae 9y ago

I am currently learning with the odin project. I see most of the discussion so far focused on whether ruby is right language. I think the project is very valuable not for its choice of language but for its overall excellent content and approach. A few examples - When doing my first lessons on ruby you are asked to read several tutorials. I thought, well I already learned that, but in every article I managed to find something new. - It uses a multitude of other learning sources, does not even try to cover too much themselves. So you get to learn in very different ways. Reading good articles, watching some talks, downloading a repo where you need to write the code to make the test run successfully. Overall I feel, I get the best content, not because they write the best content (who could do that for all the subjects?), but it points you to great content. - Contrary to many online tools, it forces you to work on your own system, which is a good thing. - It often forces you to define the problem you are solving yourself. Many online courses make it too easy, you just learn coding. You don't learn to structure the problem. - It also tries to give you a solid programming knowledge before going into web development. I really appreciate that. It's so easy to learn some angular or vue.js, then you... just need to fetch some data, ah how do I store data, oh and authentication and authorization, oh and... and quickly you get lost. I think it's is very beneficial to first get some solid programming knowledge before diving into the whole server / db / frontend stack. So I can highly recommend this approach. BTW: even the creators are thinking of driving the course more towards JS (https://github.com/TheOdinProject/curriculum/issues/5633 https://github.com/TheOdinProject/curriculum/issues/5633) edit: formatting

snowcrshd 9y ago

Is this still active? I had the impression they (the project's creators) had left this in favor of Viking Code School [1]. Apparently Viking Code School has both Ruby and JS separate tracks (I may be misremembering, though) [1] https://www.vikingcodeschool.com https://www.vikingcodeschool.com

weston 9y ago
Odin, iirc, is for people who are more self-guided. Viking seems to be for those who need more help (mentors, tutors, etc.)
KevinMul 9y ago
Hey,I'm one of the maintainers of the project and can ensure you its very much alive :) Erik the original creator of The Odin Project, has moved on to focus on Viking. But theres a bunch of us working on improving the project.
- snowcrshd 9y ago
  That's great to know! The work you guys do is awesome!

ceautery 9y ago

From the "Handling a job offer" page: "they've been totally in control of the process until now and they've probably dragged their feet because they can (who knows, an even better developer might show up, right?)." I don't care about the which-language-is-best-to-start-with debate that is being argued in full force here. If you want to rails, knock yourself out. If you want to JS, woo! JS!. I care a lot about seeing your potential employer as an antagonist. They have just indicated to you that they like you enough to invite you to join them. Negotiate, sure, but assume good faith. And the very idea that they were waiting for a better candidate who didn't show up undervalues you. YOU were the one that impressed them most. How well you code was only a part of their choice. They liked your personality best, too, and your honesty, and your dedication, and that indefinable other thing that's hard to quantify. They are likely the good guys, and they see you the same way. Now go ask for a better salary, or more vacation, but don't assume the worst.

wyqydsyq 9y ago

The project itself is a great concept but pushing people into RoR and jQuery? Really? Come on, it's 2017. Ruby is hardly a marketable skill, there are very few agencies still utilising it on new projects. I'd also be shocked to see a new project built with jQuery in this day and age. Teach beginners backend JavaScript with Node.js. It's not a matter of personal preference, JavaScript is objectively easier for beginners to learn and utilise for backend programming because arbitrarily introducing another language when they already know front-end JS increases cognitive load for no benefit.

peternicky 9y ago

This is an example of a terrible web app. I think a company that provides a course to learn web development should put in the effort to make their website a shining example of the best techniques and technologies. This looks like it was made by an amateur.