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> Well, except communism, as their ideology is based on the idea that a totalitarian state dominates all aspects of society It doesn't require a lot of googlin

by jahaja 9y ago

> Well, except communism, as their ideology is based on the idea that a totalitarian state dominates all aspects of society It doesn't require a lot of googling to find out that Socialism is not just a synonym for Bolshevism. I've found that the usual "No true Scotsman" reply to the former is just a cop-out to be able to ignore this historical fact. The reality is that apart from the rare tankie, most socialist are looking to radically extend democracy. > as it's an economic system that enables people to choose how to earn their living You really have to come from a privileged societal background to be able to believe this. Capitalism is just a scheme to create artificial scarcity. Hence, it's exactly the opposite of that.

geezerjay 9y ago
> It doesn't require a lot of googling to find out that Socialism is not just a synonym for Bolshevism. You're conflating socialism with communism. Socialism and capitalism are actually quite compatible. In fact, all of europe is profoundly socialist and their economy is as capitalist as it gets. Socialism only starts to become incompatible with capitalism when venturing into the realm of communist orthodoxy, where people are denied the fruit of their labor and instead are held hostage by the state as indentured servants.
- jahaja 9y ago
  I'm not. But even Communism is not synonymous with Bolshevism. You really should "learn your enemy" - atm you're just repeating ahistorical platitudes.
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    > I'm not. Well, you clearly are, and in the process you're showing that you are completely clueless, and resorting to veiled personal attacks to try to hide the fact that you know nothing. > But even Communism is not synonymous with Bolshevism. This wouldn't be a standard communist revisionism discussion without the tired and old "no true scotsman" arguments.
    - jahaja 9y ago
      You're not doing too well regarding that either it seems. I already tried to guard against the "no true scotsman" reflexive replies in my answer above, but to no avail. That there were many different socialist faction, and among them many non-authoritarian, is not revisionism, but available to read about for anyone that want to learn about the history of the Russian revolution. Alexander Berkman even published a diary in 1922 after fleeing Russia detailing the early years of the revolution and the totalitarian betrayal of the Bolsheviks. This is the last few paragraphs to illustrate the point: "Gray are the passing days. One by one the embers of hope have died out. Terror and despotism have crushed the life born in October. The slogans of the Revolution are foresworn, its ideals stifled in the blood of the people. The breath of yesterday is dooming millions to death; the shadow of today hangs like a black pall over the country. Dictatorship is trampling the masses under foot. The Revolution is dead; its spirit cries in the wilderness. High time the truth about the Bolsheviki were told. The whited sepulcher must be unmasked, the clay feet of the fetish beguiling the international proletariat to fatal will o’ the wisps exposed. The Bolshevik myth must be destroyed. I have decided to leave, Russia."
Turing_Machine 9y ago
"Capitalism is just a scheme to create artificial scarcity." And yet it always seems to be the Venezuelas and the Soviet Unions where people have to wait in line for days to buy a loaf of bread, and it always seems to be the "artificial scarcity" capitalist countries where you can find 30 different kinds of bread on the shelf at all times. Funny, that.
- jahaja 9y ago
  In 3rd world countries the scarcity is not artificial unfortunately.
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    > In 3rd world countries the scarcity is not artificial unfortunately. As Venezuela demonstrates, it's more a case of the communist regime destroying the economy to the point that it fails to even provide the most basic goods and services to keep society from collapsing, even when the country is standing on one of the world's largest oil reserves.

by jahaja 9y ago

geezerjay 9y ago

> It doesn't require a lot of googling to find out that Socialism is not just a synonym for Bolshevism. You're conflating socialism with communism. Socialism and capitalism are actually quite compatible. In fact, all of europe is profoundly socialist and their economy is as capitalist as it gets. Socialism only starts to become incompatible with capitalism when venturing into the realm of communist orthodoxy, where people are denied the fruit of their labor and instead are held hostage by the state as indentured servants.

jahaja 9y ago
I'm not. But even Communism is not synonymous with Bolshevism. You really should "learn your enemy" - atm you're just repeating ahistorical platitudes.
- geezerjay 9y ago
  > I'm not. Well, you clearly are, and in the process you're showing that you are completely clueless, and resorting to veiled personal attacks to try to hide the fact that you know nothing. > But even Communism is not synonymous with Bolshevism. This wouldn't be a standard communist revisionism discussion without the tired and old "no true scotsman" arguments.
  - jahaja 9y ago
    You're not doing too well regarding that either it seems. I already tried to guard against the "no true scotsman" reflexive replies in my answer above, but to no avail. That there were many different socialist faction, and among them many non-authoritarian, is not revisionism, but available to read about for anyone that want to learn about the history of the Russian revolution. Alexander Berkman even published a diary in 1922 after fleeing Russia detailing the early years of the revolution and the totalitarian betrayal of the Bolsheviks. This is the last few paragraphs to illustrate the point: "Gray are the passing days. One by one the embers of hope have died out. Terror and despotism have crushed the life born in October. The slogans of the Revolution are foresworn, its ideals stifled in the blood of the people. The breath of yesterday is dooming millions to death; the shadow of today hangs like a black pall over the country. Dictatorship is trampling the masses under foot. The Revolution is dead; its spirit cries in the wilderness. High time the truth about the Bolsheviki were told. The whited sepulcher must be unmasked, the clay feet of the fetish beguiling the international proletariat to fatal will o’ the wisps exposed. The Bolshevik myth must be destroyed. I have decided to leave, Russia."

Turing_Machine 9y ago

"Capitalism is just a scheme to create artificial scarcity." And yet it always seems to be the Venezuelas and the Soviet Unions where people have to wait in line for days to buy a loaf of bread, and it always seems to be the "artificial scarcity" capitalist countries where you can find 30 different kinds of bread on the shelf at all times. Funny, that.

jahaja 9y ago
In 3rd world countries the scarcity is not artificial unfortunately.
- geezerjay 9y ago
  > In 3rd world countries the scarcity is not artificial unfortunately. As Venezuela demonstrates, it's more a case of the communist regime destroying the economy to the point that it fails to even provide the most basic goods and services to keep society from collapsing, even when the country is standing on one of the world's largest oil reserves.