8 ms·

Telescope design promises to revolutionize amateur astronomy

68 points by Santosh83 9y ago

dperfect 9y ago
> Enhanced Vision produces extremely sharp, detailed images of even faint astronomical objects by accumulating their light and projecting it into the telescope's eyepiece. So... it pretty much works the same way every other telescope works? I read the whole article, but couldn't find a single detail about how it can actually resolve better than other telescopes of its size. The video shows an augmented reality overlay. If that's what it's all about, then I'm really not impressed (if I wanted to see images other people have taken, I wouldn't be using a telescope). Let's hope that's not what they're referring to when they say "Our compact 4.5-inch telescope allows observers to see objects fainter than Pluto."
- kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
  I read it as image stacking and an electronic viewfinder. Presumably B&W only.
  - samsnelling 9y ago
    I didn't read it that way, but that makes perfect sense. I don't really see another way they can sell it for less than $1k as the article indicated.
  - dperfect 9y ago
    Ah, that does make more sense, though you'd think they could mention it if that's what they're doing :)
    - DigitalJack 9y ago
      It doesn't sound as magical if they say how.
  - mhb 9y ago
    Their eyepiece images show color: http://www.unistellaroptics.com/en/blog http://www.unistellaroptics.com/en/blog
- madaxe_again 9y ago
  I think that all they've done is integrate a CCD with automated stacking into a newtonian. I wouldn't exactly call this revolutionary, as amateur astronomers have been coupling cameras (film then CCD) to telescopes for a century - but if it makes viewing DSOs more accessible to junior-amateurs at a good price point, then that's no bad thing. I've just replaced my entire astronomy setup as the mount was getting old and cranky, and it has involved ordering about 40 distinct pieces of kit, with a lot of knowledge required, so I can certainly see the appeal in a push button solution for casual observers.
nayuki 9y ago
> Enhanced Vision produces extremely sharp, detailed images of even faint astronomical objects by accumulating their light and projecting it into the telescope's eyepiece. Enhanced Vision technology mimics the light gathering capability of significantly larger reflector telescopes > Our compact 4.5-inch telescope allows observers to see objects fainter than Pluto and achieve sensitivity equivalent to a one-meter telescope! These claims are impossible for a direct-view optical telescope. But do they imply that they are accumulating photons on an image sensor and showing the image to the observer electronically - basically long exposure photography? On a side note, the web page hijacks clipboard copying and inserts a source URL.
- breck 9y ago
  Yes, looks like it's long exposure photography but with the resulting photos displayed in real time: "Turn Light Amplification on and the system will use its low-light sensor to accumulate light through a series of short exposures. The resulting image is projected into the eyepiece as the accumulation occurs, which means that once you start Light Amplification, you’ll see something, but the object will keep improving with time." Pretty neat idea.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    That doesn't seem particularly revolutionary to me though. You can already do this with existing software used for image-stacking, though not directly through a viewfinder (though the "viewfinder" on a real telescope designed for astrophotography should be a computer display anyway).
    - breck 9y ago
      That's a very good point. I think what's revolutionary about it is the speed and simplicity. Sure, you can do this already with image stacking software, if you already know what you're doing or want to spend 600+ minutes learning how to do it. But this promises to just point and shoot and see almost equivalent results in near real time, a speedup of ~100x. So a two order magnitude speed improvement for the novice is a big deal, imo.
alkonaut 9y ago
Here is a FAQ: Q: isn't this physically impossible? Surely it has to be based on EVF with Stacking/Long exposure? A: well of course.
mhb 9y ago
Slightly more information: http://www.unistellaroptics.com/en/product http://www.unistellaroptics.com/en/product
tbabb 9y ago
This is an ad. What's it doing here?
mcshicks 9y ago
A few years ago I saw a project to 3d print high end telescopes using smart phones to process the image at a maker faire. It was an open source design, I think this one http://www.openspaceagency.com/ultrascope/ http://www.openspaceagency.com/ultrascope/ For myself although I'm not an amateur astronomer I think I would be more interested in something I could make/tinker with myself.
CydeWeys 9y ago
As someone who has built his own telescope and been somewhat involved in amateur astronomy, this sounds like marketing bullshit to me. It reads like a press release. The first bullet point is especially damning; it's pure marketing speak devoid of any substance. Aperture diameter matters -- that's the total amount of light available. It's why when you want a better telescope, you go bigger. There's no way around that. Bullet point #2 is nothing special; it's just using GPS for location and a clock to automatically point your telescope at a specific object. This has been around for a long time. Bullet #3 appears to be talking about image-stacking, which, again, is a technique already commonly employed -- put your telescope on a computer-controlled equatorial mount, take many 30 second exposures (typically the max allowed by a DSLR) over the course of hours, and combine them in software. And I seriously doubt that you can get much utility out of stacking images taken by different telescopes in different viewing conditions.
- madaxe_again 9y ago
  Aperture isn't just the amount of light, but also resolving power. A small aperture with a long exposure might show you a DSO, but probably at >arcsec resolution. But - this makes it accessible. I don't think you can say the same for pixinsight, dss, phd, etc. - there's a fair old learning curve to do it the proper way.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    Yes, making the features easier to use is always a good thing of course, and many a company has become a successful player in its field not by inventing new things but by making existing things more accessible. What I don't like about the press release is that it makes it sound like they've come up with all these new revolutions in astronomy, which near as I can tell they haven't done at all.
    - breck 9y ago
      I guess it depends on how you define "revolution". I can clearly foresee how this might lead to 100x more people getting into astronomy. The current amateur experience is to look at the Moon, look at Jupiter, look at Saturn's rings, and then put the telescope in the attic. Once this real-time image-stacking telescope that works just like an old fashioned "dumb" telescope is refined, the experience for amateurs will be so much better. So I would call this "revolutionary", in that if you graphed the # of amateur astronomers, I could see this being a critical non-linear point where the line shoots up at a much faster rate. So a "revolution" for experts? Probably not. (Although perhaps even experts will get a lot out of the speed and simplicity of it). But for astronomy as a field, possibly.
barns-n-moguls 9y ago
Advertisement for a toy, accidentally posted on wrong website.
simonh 9y ago
Alright so according to many comments high end telescopes costing thousands of dollars already have such features, or it possible to combine different products and systems to do the same thing. Fine. The article isn't claiming anything unique, other than providing this as a single integrated product at an unprecedentedly affordable price. Is that wrong? I honestly don't know. The way I read all the negging I'd assume there are already products just like this at similar prices. Are there? I honestly don't know. Just asking.
- tkahnoski 9y ago
  Quick search on Amazon seems to reveal some results. I am the target market for this. I recently rented a cabin that had a standard telescope and although I knew exactly where Jupiter was it still took me 20-30 minutes to line it up just right. 5 minutes later a cloud moved over it. No one else got to enjoy it. I need something pre-assembled, easy to use, and at or below $1k. Although I could deal with some assembly, this is not something I want to have to troubleshoot when the sky is clear and the urge to stargaze strikes)
  - DanBC 9y ago
    There are plenty of options. Here's one: https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Nexstar-Schmidt-Cassegrain-Telescope-Case/dp/B00KWFFUS0/ https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Nexstar-Schmidt-Cassegrain-...
    - tkahnoski 9y ago
      Thanks for the suggestion. After poking around a bit I realized I probably need to factor in weight as well. Good news for me since lighter is cheaper.
DuaneSand 9y ago
Real-time image stacking can also subtract out light pollution. Imagine seeing the full width of Andromeda, 6 moon widths across, above suburban school grounds even on moonlit evenings. This will be an exciting way for kids to encounter astronomy.
freerobby 9y ago
I've spent the last several months building a platform to solve problems #2 and #3 with a (mostly) software-based approach. The controller is built on a Raspberry Pi, and it can control any servo-controlled mount or camera that is supported by OSS tools like Open Sky Imager, PHD Guider, etc. I think this is preferable to a pure hardware approach because people can use their existing equipment, and they don't have to make a major upfront investment in something proprietary. The initial cost (for the controller) should be under $100. My goal is to make astronomy more accessible to folks without deep pockets or STEM backgrounds, and to increase the pace at which we make discoveries in outer space. If anybody's interested in contributing to this project, or participating in the beta, please drop me a line (@freerobby on Twitter, or robby@freerobby.com). More about my thinking, motivations, and plan can be found here: http://astroswarm.com/2017/02/12/making-space-easy-to-study.html http://astroswarm.com/2017/02/12/making-space-easy-to-study....
Giorgi 9y ago
Soo... anything about price or ETA?
- veli_joza 9y ago
  Right in the article. Crowd-funding starts this Fall, for "less than $1000".

68 points by Santosh83 9y ago

> Enhanced Vision produces extremely sharp, detailed images of even faint astronomical objects by accumulating their light and projecting it into the telescope's eyepiece. So... it pretty much works the same way every other telescope works? I read the whole article, but couldn't find a single detail about how it can actually resolve better than other telescopes of its size. The video shows an augmented reality overlay. If that's what it's all about, then I'm really not impressed (if I wanted to see images other people have taken, I wouldn't be using a telescope). Let's hope that's not what they're referring to when they say "Our compact 4.5-inch telescope allows observers to see objects fainter than Pluto."

kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
I read it as image stacking and an electronic viewfinder. Presumably B&W only.
- samsnelling 9y ago
  I didn't read it that way, but that makes perfect sense. I don't really see another way they can sell it for less than $1k as the article indicated.
- dperfect 9y ago
  Ah, that does make more sense, though you'd think they could mention it if that's what they're doing :)
  - DigitalJack 9y ago
    It doesn't sound as magical if they say how.
- mhb 9y ago
  Their eyepiece images show color: http://www.unistellaroptics.com/en/blog http://www.unistellaroptics.com/en/blog
madaxe_again 9y ago
I think that all they've done is integrate a CCD with automated stacking into a newtonian. I wouldn't exactly call this revolutionary, as amateur astronomers have been coupling cameras (film then CCD) to telescopes for a century - but if it makes viewing DSOs more accessible to junior-amateurs at a good price point, then that's no bad thing. I've just replaced my entire astronomy setup as the mount was getting old and cranky, and it has involved ordering about 40 distinct pieces of kit, with a lot of knowledge required, so I can certainly see the appeal in a push button solution for casual observers.

nayuki 9y ago

> Enhanced Vision produces extremely sharp, detailed images of even faint astronomical objects by accumulating their light and projecting it into the telescope's eyepiece. Enhanced Vision technology mimics the light gathering capability of significantly larger reflector telescopes > Our compact 4.5-inch telescope allows observers to see objects fainter than Pluto and achieve sensitivity equivalent to a one-meter telescope! These claims are impossible for a direct-view optical telescope. But do they imply that they are accumulating photons on an image sensor and showing the image to the observer electronically - basically long exposure photography? On a side note, the web page hijacks clipboard copying and inserts a source URL.

breck 9y ago
Yes, looks like it's long exposure photography but with the resulting photos displayed in real time: "Turn Light Amplification on and the system will use its low-light sensor to accumulate light through a series of short exposures. The resulting image is projected into the eyepiece as the accumulation occurs, which means that once you start Light Amplification, you’ll see something, but the object will keep improving with time." Pretty neat idea.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  That doesn't seem particularly revolutionary to me though. You can already do this with existing software used for image-stacking, though not directly through a viewfinder (though the "viewfinder" on a real telescope designed for astrophotography should be a computer display anyway).
  - breck 9y ago
    That's a very good point. I think what's revolutionary about it is the speed and simplicity. Sure, you can do this already with image stacking software, if you already know what you're doing or want to spend 600+ minutes learning how to do it. But this promises to just point and shoot and see almost equivalent results in near real time, a speedup of ~100x. So a two order magnitude speed improvement for the novice is a big deal, imo.

alkonaut 9y ago

Here is a FAQ: Q: isn't this physically impossible? Surely it has to be based on EVF with Stacking/Long exposure? A: well of course.

mhb 9y ago

Slightly more information: http://www.unistellaroptics.com/en/product http://www.unistellaroptics.com/en/product

tbabb 9y ago

This is an ad. What's it doing here?

mcshicks 9y ago

A few years ago I saw a project to 3d print high end telescopes using smart phones to process the image at a maker faire. It was an open source design, I think this one http://www.openspaceagency.com/ultrascope/ http://www.openspaceagency.com/ultrascope/ For myself although I'm not an amateur astronomer I think I would be more interested in something I could make/tinker with myself.

CydeWeys 9y ago

As someone who has built his own telescope and been somewhat involved in amateur astronomy, this sounds like marketing bullshit to me. It reads like a press release. The first bullet point is especially damning; it's pure marketing speak devoid of any substance. Aperture diameter matters -- that's the total amount of light available. It's why when you want a better telescope, you go bigger. There's no way around that. Bullet point #2 is nothing special; it's just using GPS for location and a clock to automatically point your telescope at a specific object. This has been around for a long time. Bullet #3 appears to be talking about image-stacking, which, again, is a technique already commonly employed -- put your telescope on a computer-controlled equatorial mount, take many 30 second exposures (typically the max allowed by a DSLR) over the course of hours, and combine them in software. And I seriously doubt that you can get much utility out of stacking images taken by different telescopes in different viewing conditions.

madaxe_again 9y ago
Aperture isn't just the amount of light, but also resolving power. A small aperture with a long exposure might show you a DSO, but probably at >arcsec resolution. But - this makes it accessible. I don't think you can say the same for pixinsight, dss, phd, etc. - there's a fair old learning curve to do it the proper way.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  Yes, making the features easier to use is always a good thing of course, and many a company has become a successful player in its field not by inventing new things but by making existing things more accessible. What I don't like about the press release is that it makes it sound like they've come up with all these new revolutions in astronomy, which near as I can tell they haven't done at all.
  - breck 9y ago
    I guess it depends on how you define "revolution". I can clearly foresee how this might lead to 100x more people getting into astronomy. The current amateur experience is to look at the Moon, look at Jupiter, look at Saturn's rings, and then put the telescope in the attic. Once this real-time image-stacking telescope that works just like an old fashioned "dumb" telescope is refined, the experience for amateurs will be so much better. So I would call this "revolutionary", in that if you graphed the # of amateur astronomers, I could see this being a critical non-linear point where the line shoots up at a much faster rate. So a "revolution" for experts? Probably not. (Although perhaps even experts will get a lot out of the speed and simplicity of it). But for astronomy as a field, possibly.

barns-n-moguls 9y ago

Advertisement for a toy, accidentally posted on wrong website.

simonh 9y ago

Alright so according to many comments high end telescopes costing thousands of dollars already have such features, or it possible to combine different products and systems to do the same thing. Fine. The article isn't claiming anything unique, other than providing this as a single integrated product at an unprecedentedly affordable price. Is that wrong? I honestly don't know. The way I read all the negging I'd assume there are already products just like this at similar prices. Are there? I honestly don't know. Just asking.

tkahnoski 9y ago
Quick search on Amazon seems to reveal some results. I am the target market for this. I recently rented a cabin that had a standard telescope and although I knew exactly where Jupiter was it still took me 20-30 minutes to line it up just right. 5 minutes later a cloud moved over it. No one else got to enjoy it. I need something pre-assembled, easy to use, and at or below $1k. Although I could deal with some assembly, this is not something I want to have to troubleshoot when the sky is clear and the urge to stargaze strikes)
- DanBC 9y ago
  There are plenty of options. Here's one: https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Nexstar-Schmidt-Cassegrain-Telescope-Case/dp/B00KWFFUS0/ https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Nexstar-Schmidt-Cassegrain-...
  - tkahnoski 9y ago
    Thanks for the suggestion. After poking around a bit I realized I probably need to factor in weight as well. Good news for me since lighter is cheaper.

DuaneSand 9y ago

Real-time image stacking can also subtract out light pollution. Imagine seeing the full width of Andromeda, 6 moon widths across, above suburban school grounds even on moonlit evenings. This will be an exciting way for kids to encounter astronomy.

freerobby 9y ago

I've spent the last several months building a platform to solve problems #2 and #3 with a (mostly) software-based approach. The controller is built on a Raspberry Pi, and it can control any servo-controlled mount or camera that is supported by OSS tools like Open Sky Imager, PHD Guider, etc. I think this is preferable to a pure hardware approach because people can use their existing equipment, and they don't have to make a major upfront investment in something proprietary. The initial cost (for the controller) should be under $100. My goal is to make astronomy more accessible to folks without deep pockets or STEM backgrounds, and to increase the pace at which we make discoveries in outer space. If anybody's interested in contributing to this project, or participating in the beta, please drop me a line (@freerobby on Twitter, or robby@freerobby.com). More about my thinking, motivations, and plan can be found here: http://astroswarm.com/2017/02/12/making-space-easy-to-study.html http://astroswarm.com/2017/02/12/making-space-easy-to-study....

Giorgi 9y ago

Soo... anything about price or ETA?

veli_joza 9y ago
Right in the article. Crowd-funding starts this Fall, for "less than $1000".