6 ms·

Even if you restrict yourself to young males then immigrants have a disproportionate share in crime at least in Germany, actually immigrants in Germany commited

Even if you restrict yourself to young males then immigrants have a disproportionate share in crime at least in Germany, actually immigrants in Germany commited ~40% of all crimes in 2015, with a rapid increase in the last few years. It is also pretty obvious on the street level: drugs for example are primarily sold by immigrant gangs, for example africans with turkish bosses.

jayd16 9y ago
Where are you getting this? >According to the Bundeskriminalamt, also known as the Federal Criminal Police Office or BKA, crimes by immigrants rose 79 percent in 2015. But at the same time, the number of refugees in the country rose more than fivefold — by 440 percent. In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/11/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-germany-now-riddled-crime-thanks/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/...
- Zahlmeister 9y ago
  In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant. Sorry, but that's complete nonsense. The crime rate among immigrants (and their descendants) is much higher than among "ethnic" Germans. That means the typical German is less likely to engage in crime. In absolute numbers of course, there are much more Germans than immigrants, so Germans commit more crimes total, as you would expect. This topic is sensitive, so people just fling around with percentages and relative numbers until it appears to fit whatever narrative they would like to be true. It's not really helping convince anybody, everybody just keeps believing what they already believe. Of course, the idea that Germany is now "riddled with crime" is just another Trumpism. Considering that we have a million refugees, the increase in crime is rather low and all the alarmism isn't justified.
- vilmosi 9y ago
  > In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant. That's not what your source says. It's not the typical German, it's "comparable groups among the current population", whatever they mean by that.
  - jayd16 9y ago
    It means compared to previous crime statistic, ie, anyone who would have shown up in nationwide crime stats previously. By typical German they mean typical person living in Germany.
    - Zahlmeister 9y ago
      I'm sorry to break your bubble, but it's just not true. Let's take this apart: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/11/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-germany-now-riddled-crime-thanks/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/... Quote: "In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant." Source: https://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-less-crimes-than-germans https://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-less... Headline: "Police: refugees commit less crime than Germans" Quote: "Interior Minsiter Thomas de Maizière responded to the news by saying: "The current trend shows that refugees are just as unlikely to commit crimes as comparable groups among the current population. The majority of them don't commit crimes, they are seeking protection and and peace in Germany." Source: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article148812603/Straftaten-im-sehr-niedrigen-sechsstelligen-Bereich.html https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article148812603/Str... Actual Quote: "Ganz allgemein sprach Innenminister de Maizière von derzeit verfügbaren „Tendenzaussagen, dass Flüchtlinge im Durchschnitt genauso wenig oder oft straffällig werden wie Vergleichsgruppen der hiesigen Bevölkerung“." Translation: "We have have information that suggests that refugees commit crime about as often, or as rarely, as comparable groups in the local population". First of all, the interior minister obviously has a big incentive to downplay whatever problems are caused by the decisions of his administration. Secondly, he's talking about the refugees, not migrants in general. Also, what are "comparable groups"? It's not defined. If it's "comparable", then it's not going to be "typical" nor "average". The information he references is kept "confidential", by the way. In any case, absolutely nowhere does it say that refugees or migrants are less likely to commit crime, even though that's what is being reported by both English sources. The reality is that crime rate among migrants is higher, for whatever reason. Migrants were responsible for 10-20% (differing by state) of violent crime in 2016, well above their share of the population: http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/kriminalitaet-in-deutschland-zahl-der-gewalttaten-durch-zuwanderer-offenbar-gestiegen/19687568.html http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/kriminalitaet-in-deutschl... This article does mention however that Syrians/Iraqis are less likely to commit those crimes than migrants from other countries.
- DrScump 9y ago
  They're counting children (even infants) in the survey census while omitting crimes not committed by adults (let alone unprosecuted crimes).
- orbifold 9y ago
  https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2015/pks2015Jahrbuch.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=6 https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Pol... On page 6 the first table: 38,5% non-german, 19,6% immigrants. It contains a lot more stats that might be interesting to you. The BKA publishes those yearly. In 2016 the numbers were 40.5 % non-german, 21.5% (page 13): https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2016/pks2016Jahrbuch3TV.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2 https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Pol... Of course as the report points out there is a large number of unreported crimes and there is a probably politically motivated paragraph where they explain that the numbers are of course more complicated than that and that both germans and non-germans on average commit very few crimes (page 9).
Zahlmeister 9y ago
Counting in crimes like drug sales is misleading. Selling drugs is really just a business opportunity, albeit illegal. Native Germans tend to have much better opportunities and more to lose. To some degree the same is true for robbery/burglary as well. It's economic pressure and incentives that make these crimes attractive, these people aren't so much immigrants but rather crime tourists (some of them from EU countries, mind you). If you look at crimes without a profit motive, things tend to even out or turn around. You'll rarely see an immigrant responsible for arson or property damage, for example. In absolute terms, most crimes (that are persecuted) are of course profit-driven and the most crimes occur in poor areas.
- mnm2 9y ago
  You are not supporting the leftist agenda All people are the same! Please be silent now! Differences do not exist Actually,... differences would require that I think hard about them, won't you dare!
  - sethrin 9y ago
    Comments like this which are political rather than technical in nature are considered off-topic. If you post like this frequently you are very likely to be banned.

jayd16 9y ago

Where are you getting this? >According to the Bundeskriminalamt, also known as the Federal Criminal Police Office or BKA, crimes by immigrants rose 79 percent in 2015. But at the same time, the number of refugees in the country rose more than fivefold — by 440 percent. In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/11/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-germany-now-riddled-crime-thanks/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/...

Zahlmeister 9y ago
In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant. Sorry, but that's complete nonsense. The crime rate among immigrants (and their descendants) is much higher than among "ethnic" Germans. That means the typical German is less likely to engage in crime. In absolute numbers of course, there are much more Germans than immigrants, so Germans commit more crimes total, as you would expect. This topic is sensitive, so people just fling around with percentages and relative numbers until it appears to fit whatever narrative they would like to be true. It's not really helping convince anybody, everybody just keeps believing what they already believe. Of course, the idea that Germany is now "riddled with crime" is just another Trumpism. Considering that we have a million refugees, the increase in crime is rather low and all the alarmism isn't justified.
vilmosi 9y ago
> In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant. That's not what your source says. It's not the typical German, it's "comparable groups among the current population", whatever they mean by that.
- jayd16 9y ago
  It means compared to previous crime statistic, ie, anyone who would have shown up in nationwide crime stats previously. By typical German they mean typical person living in Germany.
  - Zahlmeister 9y ago
    I'm sorry to break your bubble, but it's just not true. Let's take this apart: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/11/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-germany-now-riddled-crime-thanks/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/... Quote: "In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant." Source: https://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-less-crimes-than-germans https://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-less... Headline: "Police: refugees commit less crime than Germans" Quote: "Interior Minsiter Thomas de Maizière responded to the news by saying: "The current trend shows that refugees are just as unlikely to commit crimes as comparable groups among the current population. The majority of them don't commit crimes, they are seeking protection and and peace in Germany." Source: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article148812603/Straftaten-im-sehr-niedrigen-sechsstelligen-Bereich.html https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article148812603/Str... Actual Quote: "Ganz allgemein sprach Innenminister de Maizière von derzeit verfügbaren „Tendenzaussagen, dass Flüchtlinge im Durchschnitt genauso wenig oder oft straffällig werden wie Vergleichsgruppen der hiesigen Bevölkerung“." Translation: "We have have information that suggests that refugees commit crime about as often, or as rarely, as comparable groups in the local population". First of all, the interior minister obviously has a big incentive to downplay whatever problems are caused by the decisions of his administration. Secondly, he's talking about the refugees, not migrants in general. Also, what are "comparable groups"? It's not defined. If it's "comparable", then it's not going to be "typical" nor "average". The information he references is kept "confidential", by the way. In any case, absolutely nowhere does it say that refugees or migrants are less likely to commit crime, even though that's what is being reported by both English sources. The reality is that crime rate among migrants is higher, for whatever reason. Migrants were responsible for 10-20% (differing by state) of violent crime in 2016, well above their share of the population: http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/kriminalitaet-in-deutschland-zahl-der-gewalttaten-durch-zuwanderer-offenbar-gestiegen/19687568.html http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/kriminalitaet-in-deutschl... This article does mention however that Syrians/Iraqis are less likely to commit those crimes than migrants from other countries.
DrScump 9y ago
They're counting children (even infants) in the survey census while omitting crimes not committed by adults (let alone unprosecuted crimes).
orbifold 9y ago
https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2015/pks2015Jahrbuch.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=6 https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Pol... On page 6 the first table: 38,5% non-german, 19,6% immigrants. It contains a lot more stats that might be interesting to you. The BKA publishes those yearly. In 2016 the numbers were 40.5 % non-german, 21.5% (page 13): https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2016/pks2016Jahrbuch3TV.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2 https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Pol... Of course as the report points out there is a large number of unreported crimes and there is a probably politically motivated paragraph where they explain that the numbers are of course more complicated than that and that both germans and non-germans on average commit very few crimes (page 9).

Zahlmeister 9y ago

Counting in crimes like drug sales is misleading. Selling drugs is really just a business opportunity, albeit illegal. Native Germans tend to have much better opportunities and more to lose. To some degree the same is true for robbery/burglary as well. It's economic pressure and incentives that make these crimes attractive, these people aren't so much immigrants but rather crime tourists (some of them from EU countries, mind you). If you look at crimes without a profit motive, things tend to even out or turn around. You'll rarely see an immigrant responsible for arson or property damage, for example. In absolute terms, most crimes (that are persecuted) are of course profit-driven and the most crimes occur in poor areas.

mnm2 9y ago
You are not supporting the leftist agenda All people are the same! Please be silent now! Differences do not exist Actually,... differences would require that I think hard about them, won't you dare!
- sethrin 9y ago
  Comments like this which are political rather than technical in nature are considered off-topic. If you post like this frequently you are very likely to be banned.