4 ms·

I have no clue, so could you point out why fat in the human diet is good (or not bad)? I'd like to learn.

fiblye 9y ago
http://knowledgenuts.com/2015/01/21/how-to-starve-to-death-while-stuffing-yourself-with-rabbit-meat/ http://knowledgenuts.com/2015/01/21/how-to-starve-to-death-w... A certain degree of fat is essential. People have been reported to actually starve on very high protein/very little fat diets.
- Laforet 9y ago
  The linked article actually describes limitations with low carbohydrate diets. Attempts to make up yhe caloric deficiency with only protein is bad as the body struggles to keep nitrogen balance. Given plenty of carbohydrates, it is possible to survive long term on very limited supply of essential fatty acids as well as proteons.
  - ue_ 9y ago
    Low carbs and high fat/protein is the essence of the keto diet, which I've heard has worked out well for some people.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Works incredibly well. https://www.reddit.com/r/keto https://www.reddit.com/r/keto
    - Laforet 9y ago
      Low carb is fine, however one cannot survive on protein alone as the main energy source.
cropsieboss 9y ago
Bears, like true omnivores, eat bugs and fruits and animal flesh and grass and practically anything to fill their bellies. Bears also, like true omnivores, can't get atherosclerosis from things they consume. Humans, feeding on primarily fat based diet get atherosclerosis very often. Best epidemiological/history research on that topic is done on Inuits where remains of children showed atherosclerotic plaques in the vessels - their diet, although not ketogenic, contained mostly animal fats and proteins. Other mechanistic studies proved that direct causal mechanism exists but the same thing happens also with sugary diet, or essentially any diet with a caloric surplus (highest effect of course with highly caloric diets or diets rich in cholesterol over long timespans). Essential fatty acids (omega-3 and omega-6), on the other hand, are abundant in animal flesh (if we ignore plant oils). Human reliance on these sources definitely implies we are omnivores but with a certain complex twist. Given the young age of nutrition science, lack of personalized methods, and flawed epidemiological studies (for example, epidemiological studies condemning meat and dietary cholesterol ultimately fail, on the other hand, studies showing that dietary cholesterol has no effect on basline cholesterol are methodologically flawed), a skeptic would conclude we still know little when it comes to long consistent living and the effect of diet on health. We do know a lot about intervention on sick people though. Practically any diet that is more healthy than a diet sick people practice works, best one being the one with highest nutrient to calories ratio (foods that have huge volume but low calories tend to have that characteristic and its mostly just plants - hard to overeat and create a caloric surplus), which is a plant-based diet. Still, it's questionable how this works long term (what's the source of fatty acids? where's B12 etc.).
- nicholas73 9y ago
  I've read studies that discuss excess cellular energy as the cause of metabolic disease, but are there any studies on athletic people eating high calories over long periods? That is, would Michael Phelps' 10k calorie per day cause a problem, even if he uses all 10k? Because there would be spikes unless one is meticulous about eating small meals over the day.
rz2k 9y ago
The Nurses Health Study (NHS) [1][2] is considered one of the best sources of long term data on factors affecting health due to its size. Regarding dietary fat intake and risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) [3] following 80K women over 14 years, they failed to find a significant correlation between total fat intake and CHD. The linked summary discusses the relative risks of different fats (limit saturated, and completely avoid trans), but it essentially comes down to calories being replaced by carbohydrates. Note that foods labeled low-fat or fat-free do tend to have more sugar. Another NHS study following 40K women over 8 years[4] showed only a weak correlation between fat intake and weight gain. The take away again is probably to care more about which fats. Unsaturated fats tend to be healthier than carbohydrates. Saturated fats tend to be more unhealthy, and transfats should be completely avoided. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurses%27_Health_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurses%27_Health_Study [2] http://www.nurseshealthstudy.org/ http://www.nurseshealthstudy.org/ [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9366580 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9366580 [4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17426332 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17426332
- cropsieboss 9y ago
  Just like you won't demonize meat because [0] says there's increased risk, you won't make conclusions about other things from epidemiological studies. [0] http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2517494 http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2517494

http://knowledgenuts.com/2015/01/21/how-to-starve-to-death-while-stuffing-yourself-with-rabbit-meat/ http://knowledgenuts.com/2015/01/21/how-to-starve-to-death-w... A certain degree of fat is essential. People have been reported to actually starve on very high protein/very little fat diets.

Laforet 9y ago
The linked article actually describes limitations with low carbohydrate diets. Attempts to make up yhe caloric deficiency with only protein is bad as the body struggles to keep nitrogen balance. Given plenty of carbohydrates, it is possible to survive long term on very limited supply of essential fatty acids as well as proteons.
- ue_ 9y ago
  Low carbs and high fat/protein is the essence of the keto diet, which I've heard has worked out well for some people.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Works incredibly well. https://www.reddit.com/r/keto https://www.reddit.com/r/keto
  - Laforet 9y ago
    Low carb is fine, however one cannot survive on protein alone as the main energy source.

cropsieboss 9y ago

Bears, like true omnivores, eat bugs and fruits and animal flesh and grass and practically anything to fill their bellies. Bears also, like true omnivores, can't get atherosclerosis from things they consume. Humans, feeding on primarily fat based diet get atherosclerosis very often. Best epidemiological/history research on that topic is done on Inuits where remains of children showed atherosclerotic plaques in the vessels - their diet, although not ketogenic, contained mostly animal fats and proteins. Other mechanistic studies proved that direct causal mechanism exists but the same thing happens also with sugary diet, or essentially any diet with a caloric surplus (highest effect of course with highly caloric diets or diets rich in cholesterol over long timespans). Essential fatty acids (omega-3 and omega-6), on the other hand, are abundant in animal flesh (if we ignore plant oils). Human reliance on these sources definitely implies we are omnivores but with a certain complex twist. Given the young age of nutrition science, lack of personalized methods, and flawed epidemiological studies (for example, epidemiological studies condemning meat and dietary cholesterol ultimately fail, on the other hand, studies showing that dietary cholesterol has no effect on basline cholesterol are methodologically flawed), a skeptic would conclude we still know little when it comes to long consistent living and the effect of diet on health. We do know a lot about intervention on sick people though. Practically any diet that is more healthy than a diet sick people practice works, best one being the one with highest nutrient to calories ratio (foods that have huge volume but low calories tend to have that characteristic and its mostly just plants - hard to overeat and create a caloric surplus), which is a plant-based diet. Still, it's questionable how this works long term (what's the source of fatty acids? where's B12 etc.).

nicholas73 9y ago
I've read studies that discuss excess cellular energy as the cause of metabolic disease, but are there any studies on athletic people eating high calories over long periods? That is, would Michael Phelps' 10k calorie per day cause a problem, even if he uses all 10k? Because there would be spikes unless one is meticulous about eating small meals over the day.

rz2k 9y ago

The Nurses Health Study (NHS) [1][2] is considered one of the best sources of long term data on factors affecting health due to its size. Regarding dietary fat intake and risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) [3] following 80K women over 14 years, they failed to find a significant correlation between total fat intake and CHD. The linked summary discusses the relative risks of different fats (limit saturated, and completely avoid trans), but it essentially comes down to calories being replaced by carbohydrates. Note that foods labeled low-fat or fat-free do tend to have more sugar. Another NHS study following 40K women over 8 years[4] showed only a weak correlation between fat intake and weight gain. The take away again is probably to care more about which fats. Unsaturated fats tend to be healthier than carbohydrates. Saturated fats tend to be more unhealthy, and transfats should be completely avoided. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurses%27_Health_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurses%27_Health_Study [2] http://www.nurseshealthstudy.org/ http://www.nurseshealthstudy.org/ [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9366580 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9366580 [4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17426332 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17426332

cropsieboss 9y ago
Just like you won't demonize meat because [0] says there's increased risk, you won't make conclusions about other things from epidemiological studies. [0] http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2517494 http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2517494