8 ms·

Your comment is silly. Accusing someone of being a "nutcase" is not constructive, nor is a comment about becoming a Borg. Yes, at the moment it's not plausible

Your comment is silly. Accusing someone of being a "nutcase" is not constructive, nor is a comment about becoming a Borg. Yes, at the moment it's not plausible to upgrade one's arm. In the future it will become plausible, though, and the upgrade will at some point be much better than what you can do at a gym. In fact, you can only get a stronger arm at the gym (or an arm with more endurance), but a bionic arm can be much better.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> Your comment is silly. Accusing someone of being a "nutcase" is not constructive, nor is a comment about becoming a Borg. Your comment is stronger without this.
Mz 9y ago
Much better in what way? I have had reason to become somewhat familiar with what happens to the body when organs are transplanted with natural organs from other people and when metal pins are used to repair damaged parts and so forth. None of it is anywhere near as good as keeping your own parts functional and healthy to begin with. It all comes with serious complications, and I think people vastly underestimate just how bad it really is. I think it is far worse than people think.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Sure, currently it is. But that's not written in stone. Lots of medical procedures used to have huge mortality rates and extreme side-effects, and are now much better, often even just a couple of decades afterwards.
  - Mz 9y ago
    The component parts they use are inherently problematic. You put enough metal in the body, it causes metal poisoning. This is a fundamental problem. You solve it by moving to other materials entirely. Other materials that have some hope of working tend to be more organic, and then we aren't talking cyborg-like outcomes anymore. We are talking some other paradigm. So, I don't see it.
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      I think you're focusing too hard on the chromesteel cyberpunk angle. A prosthetic made of silicone, plastic, and carbon fiber is still just as "cyborg". And metal will still have its place. Most people are quite tolerant to titanium, and there's been some advances lately in hydrophobic coatings for implants that keep them from interacting with your blood. I think it's unlikely to be a primary component, though, because it's heavy and expensive and its primary advantage--strength--is useless if the body it's attached to gives out first.
      - Mz 9y ago
        Look, I am not arguing against creating prostheses for people who need them for some reason. If you are going to die without it or if your functionality is sufficiently impaired due to lack of a body part, there are certainly cases where it makes sense. But I have difficulty imagining it will ever not be crazy to be willing to lop off a perfectly healthy arm to "upgrade" it. That was what I was reacting to. It isn't like I am decrying the evils of cochlear implants here.
        PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        > But I have difficulty imagining it will ever not be crazy to be willing to lop off a perfectly healthy arm to "upgrade" it. Then say that and be done with it. Don't cloud the issue with misdirection about metal poisoning.
        Mz 9y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14829343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14829343 That is exactly what I said in my first comment. And then a bunch of people piled on to have a cow about that statement. And the longer this discussion has gone on, the weirder it has gotten in terms of people trying to put words in my mouth and claim intent that isn't there. You could just give it a rest yourself. It takes two to make for good discussion. Both people need to be engaging in good faith. It only takes one to undermine that process.
FRex 9y ago
I'd much prefer nanites that silently aid you and can be controlled and repurposed and replicated easily and turned on and off like in DX1 and 2 (especially) than hunks of gross metal like in Bionic Command or DX3. Want a stronger arm: get nanites programmed right that will aid the body in the natural strengthening process: helping repair the fibers, removing carbon dioxide and lactic acid, carrying in more oxygen and nutrients, etc. In Deus Ex it actually went through mechs (who ended up being despised and ostracized) first to nanites then with nanites being more powerful (thus making mechs also obsolete) and seamless (you couldn't tell who had nanites in him just by looking).
microwavecamera 9y ago
Getting a prosthesis because of a medical condition is one thing, voluntarily amputating a body part to get one is insane.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> Your comment is silly. Accusing someone of being a "nutcase" is not constructive, nor is a comment about becoming a Borg. Your comment is stronger without this.

Mz 9y ago

Much better in what way? I have had reason to become somewhat familiar with what happens to the body when organs are transplanted with natural organs from other people and when metal pins are used to repair damaged parts and so forth. None of it is anywhere near as good as keeping your own parts functional and healthy to begin with. It all comes with serious complications, and I think people vastly underestimate just how bad it really is. I think it is far worse than people think.

icebraining 9y ago
Sure, currently it is. But that's not written in stone. Lots of medical procedures used to have huge mortality rates and extreme side-effects, and are now much better, often even just a couple of decades afterwards.
- Mz 9y ago
  The component parts they use are inherently problematic. You put enough metal in the body, it causes metal poisoning. This is a fundamental problem. You solve it by moving to other materials entirely. Other materials that have some hope of working tend to be more organic, and then we aren't talking cyborg-like outcomes anymore. We are talking some other paradigm. So, I don't see it.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    I think you're focusing too hard on the chromesteel cyberpunk angle. A prosthetic made of silicone, plastic, and carbon fiber is still just as "cyborg". And metal will still have its place. Most people are quite tolerant to titanium, and there's been some advances lately in hydrophobic coatings for implants that keep them from interacting with your blood. I think it's unlikely to be a primary component, though, because it's heavy and expensive and its primary advantage--strength--is useless if the body it's attached to gives out first.
    - Mz 9y ago
      Look, I am not arguing against creating prostheses for people who need them for some reason. If you are going to die without it or if your functionality is sufficiently impaired due to lack of a body part, there are certainly cases where it makes sense. But I have difficulty imagining it will ever not be crazy to be willing to lop off a perfectly healthy arm to "upgrade" it. That was what I was reacting to. It isn't like I am decrying the evils of cochlear implants here.
      - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        > But I have difficulty imagining it will ever not be crazy to be willing to lop off a perfectly healthy arm to "upgrade" it. Then say that and be done with it. Don't cloud the issue with misdirection about metal poisoning.
        Mz 9y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14829343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14829343 That is exactly what I said in my first comment. And then a bunch of people piled on to have a cow about that statement. And the longer this discussion has gone on, the weirder it has gotten in terms of people trying to put words in my mouth and claim intent that isn't there. You could just give it a rest yourself. It takes two to make for good discussion. Both people need to be engaging in good faith. It only takes one to undermine that process.

FRex 9y ago

I'd much prefer nanites that silently aid you and can be controlled and repurposed and replicated easily and turned on and off like in DX1 and 2 (especially) than hunks of gross metal like in Bionic Command or DX3. Want a stronger arm: get nanites programmed right that will aid the body in the natural strengthening process: helping repair the fibers, removing carbon dioxide and lactic acid, carrying in more oxygen and nutrients, etc. In Deus Ex it actually went through mechs (who ended up being despised and ostracized) first to nanites then with nanites being more powerful (thus making mechs also obsolete) and seamless (you couldn't tell who had nanites in him just by looking).

microwavecamera 9y ago

Getting a prosthesis because of a medical condition is one thing, voluntarily amputating a body part to get one is insane.