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You don't need cladding on a simple light pipe. Did they consider non-electronics solutions? Who knows. It may be the sooner they discover where the fuel went

by marze 9y ago

You don't need cladding on a simple light pipe. Did they consider non-electronics solutions? Who knows. It may be the sooner they discover where the fuel went, the sooner they need to start spending the $80B to dig it out. So slow is a feature.

nate_meurer 9y ago
Where'd you get that idea? :) You absolutely would need cladding on a light pipe, and lots of it. All kinds of optical materials are subject to darkening, clouding, and embrittlement by much lower levels of ionizing radiation than exist in the reactor [0]. Again, here we're talking about tremendous amounts of radiation over much of the pipe's length, so even small amounts of damage per unit length are going to quickly render the pipe useless for imaging. http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a013786.pdf http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a013786.pdf
- marze 9y ago
  I see the problem, you are misunderstanding the proposal. I suggested using optics for imaging, and fiber to bring in illumination. You'd have a telescope-like camera at the far end. No image transmission through a fiber bundle. You would need refractive elements that would work in the high radiation environment. As for the illumination, collimated light down a polish steel tube would obviously work, but a rod of glass should work as well.
  - nate_meurer 9y ago
    Yes but illumination is not the problem here. The robots have no problem with lighting. Imaging is a problem. Your search for "refractive elements that would work in the high radiation environment" would likely lead you to something like the optics that Toshiba has developed for these robots. Remember to also account for the thermal effects; radiation of this magnitude is capable of heating the internal elements of your assembly by hundreds of degrees, and your telescope-like camera must maintain its tolerances very precisely to produce a usable image. And perhaps the hardest problem of all: how to maneuver all of this stuff into place through hundreds of meters of industrial hell, where humans can't even stay long in the parking lot outside of a shielded truck. Tackle these problems using no robotics, and you'll be famous, I guarantee it :)
- deleted 9y ago
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by marze 9y ago

nate_meurer 9y ago

Where'd you get that idea? :) You absolutely would need cladding on a light pipe, and lots of it. All kinds of optical materials are subject to darkening, clouding, and embrittlement by much lower levels of ionizing radiation than exist in the reactor [0]. Again, here we're talking about tremendous amounts of radiation over much of the pipe's length, so even small amounts of damage per unit length are going to quickly render the pipe useless for imaging. http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a013786.pdf http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a013786.pdf

marze 9y ago
I see the problem, you are misunderstanding the proposal. I suggested using optics for imaging, and fiber to bring in illumination. You'd have a telescope-like camera at the far end. No image transmission through a fiber bundle. You would need refractive elements that would work in the high radiation environment. As for the illumination, collimated light down a polish steel tube would obviously work, but a rod of glass should work as well.
- nate_meurer 9y ago
  Yes but illumination is not the problem here. The robots have no problem with lighting. Imaging is a problem. Your search for "refractive elements that would work in the high radiation environment" would likely lead you to something like the optics that Toshiba has developed for these robots. Remember to also account for the thermal effects; radiation of this magnitude is capable of heating the internal elements of your assembly by hundreds of degrees, and your telescope-like camera must maintain its tolerances very precisely to produce a usable image. And perhaps the hardest problem of all: how to maneuver all of this stuff into place through hundreds of meters of industrial hell, where humans can't even stay long in the parking lot outside of a shielded truck. Tackle these problems using no robotics, and you'll be famous, I guarantee it :)
deleted 9y ago
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