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Importantly: 1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty Now if you're intere

Importantly: 1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty Now if you're interested in this case, read on... There are hundreds of independent yellow pages (including Yellow Pages United) that legally use the term Yellow Pages and the "walking fingers" logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pages My partners have been doing direct mail and publishing a real, actual, yellow pages "Business Book" for something like 10 years. I've personally known them for almost 4 years and they're not crooks. They are important figures in the community and employ a few dozen people here. Their legal counsel for compliance with postal regulations is some of the best in the business and they have been operating without ever having any fear of being subject to criminal fraud prosecution. Their detention hearing was today. After 5 hours of testimony the federal judge from Florida's Middle District decided to release Mark, Marian and Chris on bond, basically disagreeing with the Atlanta court's request. What I witnessed during the hearing was political grandstanding, a run-amok federal prosecutor trying to make a name for himself and sheer cluelessness on behalf of the government. A ton of "facts" in the criminal complaint simply don't make any sense. For instance, they claim that the FTC consumer complaint database has over 100,000 issues in it related to United Directories. That is plainly false and we heard testimony in court today that the FTC regularly investigates companies once they exceed 5-10 complaints. That the FTC would ignore 100 thousand complaints over the course of 5 years is complete bullshit. Also, the $425MM figure being widely quoted in the news is based on deposits figures from United Directories' (UD) sweep account. SWEEP ACCOUNT. They summed up all the money ever deposited into the UD sweep account and spent hours claiming that the money had disappeared. It hadn't disappeared -- it never existed in the first place! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweep_account http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweep_account In an almost funny episode, the federal prosecutor admitted he did not know what a sweep account was, later calling the explanation "trickery" on the part of the defense. There's so much more to this case than what the media is reporting and we're going to do our best to make sure that our side of the story, the truth, is heard. All of Hashrocket is pretty distraught, but we'll do our best to soldier on and support our friends in whatever way possible.

oldgregg 16y ago
I have little doubt this is essentially what happened-- quite possibly operating completely within the law. Perhaps they do publish a book. But we've all heard about "directory" services like this and I dare anyone to keep a straight face and say they don't greatly benefit from deceiving people.
- obiefernandez 16y ago
  They produced, published and mailed out a real 1000+ page book, twice a year, and I'm aware that it cost them millions of dollars and lots of manpower to do so. We can debate the usefulness of paper-based yellow pages in this day and age until the cows come home, but either way it would not mean they committed fraud.
  - ryanjmo 16y ago
    I do not think the pervious commentor was implying that they committed fraud; he or she was simply saying that they likely benefit from deceiving people. Many legit companies benefit from deceiving people.
    - Confusion 16y ago
      I think it's rather rude of you and that previous commentor to assert such things. A company does not 'deceive' its customers just because you think the service they offer is useless and could only possibly be sold as a result of grandiose claims of effectiveness and other false pretenses. In fact, in this day and age, large parts of the worlds still work the same way they worked ten years ago. Time and time again, we internet savvy folks grossly overestimate the amount of business and consumption that has shifted to 'the web'. Yes, Amazon has a revenue of 24.5 billion. Do you realize what the total size of that market is? I know someone that still makes money printing books of coupons that the receivers can redeem to obtains discounts, rebates, etc. If you honestely believe that companies only invest in that out of custom and the false belief that it still yields results, then you are out of your mind. You are mistaking intelligence for knowledge and making claims about a subject you actually don't know anything about.

oldgregg 16y ago

I have little doubt this is essentially what happened-- quite possibly operating completely within the law. Perhaps they do publish a book. But we've all heard about "directory" services like this and I dare anyone to keep a straight face and say they don't greatly benefit from deceiving people.

obiefernandez 16y ago
They produced, published and mailed out a real 1000+ page book, twice a year, and I'm aware that it cost them millions of dollars and lots of manpower to do so. We can debate the usefulness of paper-based yellow pages in this day and age until the cows come home, but either way it would not mean they committed fraud.
- ryanjmo 16y ago
  I do not think the pervious commentor was implying that they committed fraud; he or she was simply saying that they likely benefit from deceiving people. Many legit companies benefit from deceiving people.
  - Confusion 16y ago
    I think it's rather rude of you and that previous commentor to assert such things. A company does not 'deceive' its customers just because you think the service they offer is useless and could only possibly be sold as a result of grandiose claims of effectiveness and other false pretenses. In fact, in this day and age, large parts of the worlds still work the same way they worked ten years ago. Time and time again, we internet savvy folks grossly overestimate the amount of business and consumption that has shifted to 'the web'. Yes, Amazon has a revenue of 24.5 billion. Do you realize what the total size of that market is? I know someone that still makes money printing books of coupons that the receivers can redeem to obtains discounts, rebates, etc. If you honestely believe that companies only invest in that out of custom and the false belief that it still yields results, then you are out of your mind. You are mistaking intelligence for knowledge and making claims about a subject you actually don't know anything about.