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Seeing "Free market solves all" believers (which libertarians are a subset) on hacker news still to me is amazing. It seems like it requires such double think.

Seeing "Free market solves all" believers (which libertarians are a subset) on hacker news still to me is amazing. It seems like it requires such double think. The free-market concentrates wealth/power to those that have wealth/power. It always has, and always will. There is no "fair competition". If anywhere hacker news is blatant about sharing this truth. Every business plan lools for its "moat". It's way to ensure it doesn't have to compete. Half the startup exit strategies aren't to make a long term business, but to get bought out by a huge company and let them own the product. Ie concentrate more power in one of the aleeady most powerful companies. Amazon, Google, Facebook... on a daily basis we sit and watch these companies expand at will taking over markets and now industries and forcing out and effectively preventing any legit competition. Fundamentally how can people believe that the "free-market" is actually a balancing fair effect while watching this data day in and day out. The positive impact free-market is an idealism that doesn't exist. It's the exact same thing with communism, but a different group who is mixing up their ideologically perfect idea with reality. Yes communism probably would be great if the world worked that way, but it doesn't. And yes libertarianism would be great if the world worked that way, but it doesn't. Communist refuse to believe their ideology is flawed regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary, libertarians do the exact same but with a different religion.

pitaj 9y ago
You just made a list of assertions based on the popularity of a certain viewpoint on HN, which does have a left leaning bias. It all depends on what you want to optimize for. If you optimize for equality, go with communism, and everyone will be equally poor. If you want wealth, go with a free market, and billions of people will be elevated out of poverty. Freer markets lead to more economic growth and therefore more with for everyone, not just the rich. Free markets aren't about fair, they're about progress. Yes, every business wants a moat. The main source of this moat? Government interventions with regulations, bailouts, prohibitions, etc
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  "Yes, every business wants a moat. The main source of this moat? Government interventions with regulations, bailouts, prohibitions, etc " Libertarians never can describe what a free market really is. Is anti-theft law a government regulation? Seems to me that pure anarchy is the only real free market.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - opo 9y ago
    >Libertarians never can describe what a free market really is. With a small amount of effort using google, you can find plenty of web pages describing basic libertarian philosophy - it really isn’t some kind of mystery. >...Is anti-theft law a government regulation? Seems to me that pure anarchy is the only real free market. (Since you asked, I would guess that most libertarians would say that the basic goal of a free market is to allow for voluntary exchanges between two parties which leave both better off. In order for this to happen, there has to be rule of law, property rights, enforcement of contracts, etc. And if you are wondering, libertarians likely also think that drugs and electrical devices, etc should be safe - they may just have different ideas on how to achieve that safety. Just because someone is opposed to prohibition on various drugs or opposed to laws against prostitution etc etc doesn’t mean they are proposing an anarchistic war of all against all.)
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      Yes I can look up libertarian philosophy. No problem. What I can't look up is how this would work in the real world. Want safe drugs and devices? Who determines that? Somebody has done harm to another person. Who determines that? Look at tobacco. Without government research we would probably still be at the same stage as climate research where the tobacco companies would claim the science is still unsettled. How can you get a court settlement against billion dollar company who can pay an unlimited number of lawyers and scientists? I just think a lot of libertarians are intellectually lazy, blame everything on government and offer no practical solutions. There is a lot to improve in this world but dreaming of the ever elusive free market and evil government will do nothing.

pitaj 9y ago

You just made a list of assertions based on the popularity of a certain viewpoint on HN, which does have a left leaning bias. It all depends on what you want to optimize for. If you optimize for equality, go with communism, and everyone will be equally poor. If you want wealth, go with a free market, and billions of people will be elevated out of poverty. Freer markets lead to more economic growth and therefore more with for everyone, not just the rich. Free markets aren't about fair, they're about progress. Yes, every business wants a moat. The main source of this moat? Government interventions with regulations, bailouts, prohibitions, etc

maxxxxx 9y ago
"Yes, every business wants a moat. The main source of this moat? Government interventions with regulations, bailouts, prohibitions, etc " Libertarians never can describe what a free market really is. Is anti-theft law a government regulation? Seems to me that pure anarchy is the only real free market.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- opo 9y ago
  >Libertarians never can describe what a free market really is. With a small amount of effort using google, you can find plenty of web pages describing basic libertarian philosophy - it really isn’t some kind of mystery. >...Is anti-theft law a government regulation? Seems to me that pure anarchy is the only real free market. (Since you asked, I would guess that most libertarians would say that the basic goal of a free market is to allow for voluntary exchanges between two parties which leave both better off. In order for this to happen, there has to be rule of law, property rights, enforcement of contracts, etc. And if you are wondering, libertarians likely also think that drugs and electrical devices, etc should be safe - they may just have different ideas on how to achieve that safety. Just because someone is opposed to prohibition on various drugs or opposed to laws against prostitution etc etc doesn’t mean they are proposing an anarchistic war of all against all.)
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    Yes I can look up libertarian philosophy. No problem. What I can't look up is how this would work in the real world. Want safe drugs and devices? Who determines that? Somebody has done harm to another person. Who determines that? Look at tobacco. Without government research we would probably still be at the same stage as climate research where the tobacco companies would claim the science is still unsettled. How can you get a court settlement against billion dollar company who can pay an unlimited number of lawyers and scientists? I just think a lot of libertarians are intellectually lazy, blame everything on government and offer no practical solutions. There is a lot to improve in this world but dreaming of the ever elusive free market and evil government will do nothing.